Girlfriend's redundancy warning, advice?

laurahughes

Just to expand on the comments of previous posters - last in first out is potentially descriminatory as it could imply ageism - VERY generally speaking the last in to the company is likely to be a younger employee in a support level position.

Personally I would advise that she needs to ask the company to consult with the other three employees. There may be someone who wants to take voluntary redundancy, or two people who would be willing to cut their hours and job share etc.

From personal experience if the employer has already decided that she will be the one to go, unless someone else steps forward and takes voluntary redundancy I believe employers will always move the goal posts to get who they want in the jobs.

She could also see it as a compliment though - if the company are also under a recruitment freeze, which is likely, they may not be able to hire anyone else if someone leaves for another job. Maybe they are looking at your gf and thinking that she is likely to look for, and be successful in securing, another job in the near future? So if she does want to stay she needs to make it clear that she sees her future with this company and is not going to leave. The company may be interested in a "golden handcuff" opportunity whereas if she stays more than 12 months she gets an incentive bonus of some kind.

Good luck to your gf, she is lucky to have such a supportive partner looking out for her in any case!

LadyMissA

I am a purchase ledger clerk who was made redundant from a team of 4 in purchase ledger and 2 in sale ledger

we had a new computer system that was coming on board and the company said it would speed up the work and we'd need one less person and some of the sites we owned had closed too hence them saying less work.

we were all informed that one of us would lose our job but not the 2 two team leaders so it was just between 4 out of the 6 of us

all called in one at a time with the FC and accounts manager to ask any questions first then they did a scoring system on us
so if you had had more time off sick or were late once and the others weren't you were the one to go & a week later they told me it was me. Never showed me the scores and a week later I was gone

If its her job alone thats going they can make her redundant they will just have to prove the rest of the team can do her job between them - thats all. If they have told her not to say anything then she cant

LadyMissA

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

I'ld give ACAS a call and ask for their advice - its free. There is a procedure that needs to be followed when making redundancies. Does sound like they've made their mind up. Hope she can get it sorted.

if they are making one role redundant and its only one job considered they can just call her in and make her redundant - it happened at my job and unluckily for them realised they had to give her 10 weeks notice as she had been there 10 years and thats what the contract said so they made her work for 10 weeks before she left

londoner1998

Manchester2012 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, some good points there, shes basically asked me to help her prepare some questions for her meeting, so that will all come in useful. If they offer her anywhere near a decent amount of money she would probably dance her way out of the office, so we'll just have to wait and see. I just have a feeling that because she wouldn't really say boo to a goose, they think oh this will be an easy one to get rid of, if you get my drift. Shes been there 3 years, always seemed to do well, never had a day off sick in that time, whereas all the other 3 have had numerous absences. I know it cant be said or used as info, but apparantly the manager 'fancies the !!! of one of the other girls' so she was never going to be an option to leave.

The point about them coping when she is not there is a good one though and will tell her to include that in her list of questions. She had a week off and came on holiday with me, she had at least 3 phone calls on seperate days helping one of the girls telling them how to do tasks. Which she should probably tell them.

Because she deals with money, she knows that they have 'paid off' a few of the managers etc over the last year with sums of 35k as she saw the money going, but there managers, probably on 40 grand a year, compared to a purchase ledger clerk on 17k.

They have told her today we will help you find a new job, help you do a CV, will contact people who might have a job for you, it was the hardest decision etc etc so it sounds to me like they have already made there mind up.

By the way, should she mention anything about last in first out? Or is that just a myth really? She wasn't the last one to start out of the 4 either. And the last one in is the least qualified too.

Thanks

Hey Manchester

I am in the same situation as your girlfirend, almost identical (although I am not a purchase ledger, but I was the last on ein, and didn;t take part in the office gossip).
I am almost at the end of the process and what I would recommend very strongly is that she seeks advice from the Union (if she belongs to one) before doing anything else.
Then, I assume there will be a period of consultation (depending on how many people they are getting rid of).
I also subscribe with what has been said about Voluntary redundancies as that might impact on their decision regarding her role. If several people are doing the same job and they are cutting one out, they shodul 'pool' them, interview them all and the best wins.
RE: Redeployment, make sure they mean what they say- in my case, they haven't lifted a finger and that's another notch on my appeal, as they are failing in their commitment with the UNions to mitigate against redundaudy where possible. Sendin links to vacancis thay uou have to compete for is not redeployment.

BUT- the have to prove that nobody else is doing her job- ie, the funtions she is carrying out have disappeared. This was one of the points in my appeal and the strongest- I saw my boss doing what I used to do. It is taking time and I know they are investigating (there are two VR in my team but they are not letting them go- they want me out- cheaper redundancy pay- even though they will savefour times as much in subsequent years if they let them go).

So far it seems they haven't issued the notice yet- mine came at the end of May, even though they told me I was 'at risk' in February
But this might be different for her- where I am it is about 500 of us being made redundant right now (Thank you Mr Hague).

So having been where she is I would advise a two-pronged approach:

1) Start looking for something else straight away- it can take months
2) Get as much info as possible and get a good Union rep.

I get the point about not making trouble for the bosses, but that's what they bank on when they decide to get rid of people and keep their mates: fear


I think it is not trouble-making, it is fighting for a job you earnt lawfully and doing things by the book. If you are honest and do things right and have nothing to hide, what's the problem- the 'prove you are the one to keep' is very nice in theory, but once they make up their minds, that counts for nothing (as I foudn out quite early one).When it comes to the crunch you have to deal with the facts- ie, how are they conducting this process? Can they prove what they say they are doing? It can't be just cherry-picking who they prefer I'm afraid.

Good luck, it is nice to see you are both fighting it together- it can be so demoralising


ETA_ Look at the ACAS website: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1611

warmhands.coldheart

Hi Manchester,

A few of my thoughts

Manchester2012 wrote: »

Hi,

Never been on here for employment related advice before, but my girlfriends come home tonight all upset because shes had a letter warning that her role may be made redundant. She has got a meeting on thursday, and has to prove that her role is worth keeping.
Are you sure she "has to prove that her role is worth keeping."?
Surely this would be a business decision?.. is it not a case she has to give her case why she is "better" than others in her team and should be kept on n the role? bit like a job interview again..


Now im not up on the law of employee rights or anything, but what i have heard in the past is, that an employer cannot make you redundant, then employ someone else to do the same job.
I believe a certain time has to pass before they can take someone on again in hte same role.

She works as a purchase ledger clerk, within the accounts department of around 4 other people. She is the only one who has been given this warning.
Are you sure? If they areall part of the same team and she does the same role as everyone else or could do their job then all should have been given notice... sounds like they are treading on very thin ice!!

She does her role alone, and tells me that it isn't physically possible for the company to just not have a purchase ledger. So, the only thing they could do is split her work over the other 3 people as well as their own work. She wasn't the last one in the department, and is able to do the jobs of the other 3 people too, but says she isn't the bosses favorite and the others are better friends with the boss etc. They've told the other 3 in the department that the rest of them are safe. Even though one of them is less qualified than my girlfriend.

Sorry answers my question above (I'd get a good employment solicitor on the case... sounds like they are picking on her) My OH went through this sort of crap and the company ended up settling after the threat of court action...

What sort of things should she be stating in the meeting on thursday? What should she be asking? Shes told me in the past when they decide to get rid of somebody they just seem to get away with it and nothing gets asked. I want her to go in eyes wide open and be able to ask all the proper questions, because by the sounds of it other people they have got rid of in the past have just nodded there head and said ok. Im going to make sure she at least fights it though.

Thanks, any advice appreciated.

LadyMissA

warmhands.coldheart wrote: »

Hi Manchester,

A few of my thoughts


Now im not up on the law of employee rights or anything, but what i have heard in the past is, that an employer cannot make you redundant, then employ someone else to do the same job.
I believe a certain time has to pass before they can take someone on again in hte same role.

I left my job in July 2010 as I was made redundant. I heard from someone who then left in December that the company took TWO people on to replace me and the other girl who went on maternity leave.

I called ACAS and they said since it was later than 90 days there was nothing I could do to appeal my redunacy but I could take them to court but I need a lawyer to which I said I dont have the £ and the person only told me as he left and didnt think his job was then at risk as he was no longer there

ACAS told me companies do this as they know people who have lost a job can not afford to take them to court

SarEl

It's probably cold comfort - but what on earth were ACAS talking about? If you were out of time for a tribunal there was never any other court case you could have taken - money for a lawyer or not.

LadyMissA

SarEl wrote: »

It's probably cold comfort - but what on earth were ACAS talking about? If you were out of time for a tribunal there was never any other court case you could have taken - money for a lawyer or not.

No I could challenge the fact that my company took 2 people on only 8 weeks after I left - is that legal? I don't think it is since I was told they had to cut back one of our jobs and the girl on maternity wasnt going to re covered and thats why I couldnt take her place for a year

LadyMissA

and besides how does anyone know they haven't been replaced with someone cheaper when they get made 'redundant'

getmore4less

Contary to what many people think there are no time limits on reemploying in the same roll.

There are circumstances where this perfectly legal and no comeback for someone made redundant