Landlord, Leaseholder, Tenant

kburgoyne

A lengthy complex situation kept brief,

HA assured tenancy since 1998

Sign assured tenancy agreement on new flat in 2001 with sole use of the garden, given 2 keys and sole use of 2 walk in cupboards. The flat is one of 2 in a semi detached house the other flat is leasehold.

2008 and 3 leaseholders of the other flat later, the landlord informs me the 2 cupboards are part of the leaseholders lease and the leaseholder has access rights along with access rights to a yet to be identified drying area. The landlord now demands I give up the cupnoards and give the leaseholder unrestricted access.

The landlord admits its mistake and has had a liability advise done from the Lamb Chambers this tells me I have grounds to take an action on misrepresentation of tenancy, breach of contract and interference of my quiet enjoyment.

So as not to muddy the waters I've left out plans to buy and an extension , the thousands of pounds spent internally and externally and the fact the landlord gave us permission to keep a dog who has been kennelled in the garden for 7 years.

I came across the case law below can anyone tell me if it applies to me? Also has the landlord breach my statutory rights by changing my tenancy without agreement and has the landlord broken any laws by effectively leasing the same land to 2 different people?

"if a tenant occupies land of his landlord "as a mere extension to the locus of his tenancy", the occupation is not deemed to be adverse (Lord Hastings v Saddler). However, he will be entitled to occupy the land until the end of his tenancy (Smirke v Lyndale Developments)."

G_M

Sounds to me like an honest mistake. If the cupboards are not covered by the landlord's lease, but are part of the other flat (which is how I interpret your post), then I should graciously give them up.

The occupant of the other flat is presumably assuming from his lease they belong to him.

Does your tenancy agreement actually describe the cupboards? Or just state the address of the property and the cupboards have been 'assumed' to be part of the tenancy?

K.Burgoyne

Oh your a really nice pperson aren't you

10 years private garden, lost

Pirivacy to kitchen and bedroom, lost

10 years investment with a view to buy and extend, lost

Storage for business tools, lost

Of course we'll just get the dog put down that will solve that problem.

If you are going to be part of the problem please do not comment. I asked if anyone one had specific legal opinions thank you.

mjdh1957

If you want legal advice, get a solicitor.

People on here are just ordinary folk with opinions. Which are free to give and it's up to you to ignore them or accept them.

No need to be rude to those who respond.

K.Burgoyne

No you are being rude stay off this thread please

mjdh1957

It's a free country. Anyone can have an opinion. And as long as people aren't abusive they can post on here to any thread they like.

Just as you are free to ignore them.

You have no right to ask people to 'stay off this thread'. It is not 'yours'.

[Deleted User]

<cough>OP remember, while u are understandably upset about the situation.., its not going to benefit you to take it out on people making comments.., even if the comments don't seem to be helpful to you.

Its also not going to encourage helpful comments to be made.

Unfortunately, sometimes we are dealt with unfairly and there is not always a legal redress, however large the impact may be on our lives. U are fortunate., your landlord made a mistake but is acting honestly, and u have been given advice that says u have rights to some legal redress.

HOWEVER try and think of it another way.., u have had 10 years sole use of things u shouldn't have had. Yes you were misinformed by the landlord.., yes its enough to make the blood boil.., but u haven't lost anything because u shouldn't have had it in the first place. U actually gained because of this mistake.., not lost. I am sure this will annoy you, but I don't intend to.., I am just trying to make you think because u can't alter the situation now the reality is established.

While the lease u were given was wrong in certain area's.., unfortunately u can't get those 'rights' back.., whatever you do. U can take the landlord to court, but this will only get u money.., if u win. Its not going to get u the rights u previously thought u had back. Its not fair.., but it is true.

If u talk to the other property's tenants, maybe u can come to some workable arrangement. As regards your dog.., in particular. U may have to consider moving.., whether its right or wrong.., the situation is there and I'm afraid u have to decide how to deal with it.., u won't get those rights u thought u had back. I am not certain u will win a court case but I am certain it won't get u back what u really want.

BitterAndTwisted

Giving you access to the cupboards was most likely a mistake. You have been told that the leaseholders should given access to a drying-area, not taking away the whole of the garden you have been using.

This all sounds like a storm in a tea-cup to me.

RobertoMoir

If you want actual legal opinion you need to engage a solicitor. Even if a solicitor were to post on this thread, I believe they would be very careful to say that they are not offering you legal advice, just an informed "down the pub" point of view. Apart from anything else, you say yourself that your post is "A lengthy complex situation kept brief" and that makes it tough to give full answers. The devil is often in the details.

Being pointlessly rude to another poster, one who does give good advice at that, is only going to make others avoid posting here, too.

It sounds like the advice you've had from the landlord is reasonable - they've admitted their mistake and from what I can understand from your post, passed on advice to you that you are entitled to seek redress for this. It sounds like they're well aware of the seriousness of their mistake and aren't looking to ride roughshod over your right to redress... but that doesn't automatically mean you get to keep the property that is in dispute, I suspect any redress will be in the form of a compensation payment.

angrypirate

Is this the same large social housing landlord you tried to take to court in April? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/42829528#Comment_42829528

K.Burgoyne

Didn't try pirate with the help of their counsels advise I've got them in court now they've already made an offer so not to fussed about that.

As I tried to point out I'm more interested in this "Smirke v Lyndale Developments" case law and if it would apply because apart from throwing a spanner in the works it does give me a lot of leverage. I also asked if anyone knew of any laws my landlord may have broken.

Thanks for your reply and bringing some sense to this playground I notice a broken matress got 48 replies while this rather more involved post got questions it shouldn't have been asked in the first place then abuse from the keyboard gobs when they didn't like the reply.

For those quick to gob off, there are other sites who do not profess to be legal experts but have given this problem much more consideration than here.

I do not demand or expect answers rather I simply asked "if anyone can tell me" now put ur dummy back in and don't contribute if you are going to be part of the problem.