Duff advice from First Direct

Thrugelmir

If you're not happy with the offer don't accept it.

Remember the offer is made a gesture of goodwill not an admission of wrongdoing.

Ultimately your signed contractual terms, of which you have a copy, will override any verbal conversations.

holly_hobby

Ok ... they are offering the £225 as "a gesture of good will and without liability", which is what their letter probably also states.

You may if you wish ... push this and reject the offer made, but beware they may respond with an acceptance of your rejection, and also confirm their retraction of the same.

They will probably state that the offer is made without admission of liability (as I feel they will argue that your contractual document would over ride any inaccurate verbal statement made), and may elect not to present any further offer at all. (depends how confident they feel if it went further, they should as a business decision also consider any arbitration fee that would be due - which is also dependant upon their complaint history).

So its a gamble, but if you feel strongly enough and think that 225 is a derisory figure bearing in mind their previous actions .. then you have nothing to lose (except perhaps the 225 if they withdraw their offer)

As I stated in my earlier post, if you get away with just paying £500 of the extra £1000 than I do think that would be a v good result, bearing in mind the circumstances we are working with.

Have a chat with your OH, have a think about it, and decide your course of action .... I have already given you guidance on the basics that should form the foundation of your complaint - the rest is up to you ...

Well done as well for getting them up to 225 from the initial 100 they offered you .... :T that could be considered a small victory in itself ...

My best wishes & good luck what ever you decide to do .. and next time .. read the bllinkin docs !!!

Hope this helps

Holly

dunstonh

I didnt think First Direct gave advice or employed advisers. I thought they were just clerks providing information. (i know this is late to the thread but obviously if they dont give advice they cannot be responsible for bad advice - just bad information).

An adviser quoted me £2k. As I had another query later that day I rang again (and spoke to the same guy). He reiterated the £2k fee.

To cut a long story short, it turns out that the fee is actually £3k. FD are adamant that cos' the paperwork we had when we took the mortgage out states £3k - what the adviser said over the phone is irrelevant (even though they have listened to the tape and confirmed what he said).

Normally, you would think the FOS would be sympathetic. However, there is a good chance they may consider the fact that you knew in advance is was £3k as you had paperwork saying so and the fact you phoned twice to check indicates you felt it was wrong, as grounds for being less sympathetic with your situation.

As at that point no financial loss had been incurred and you are not actually being charged more than you should have been, then you are not out of pocket by any amount. Therefore a goodwill gesture seems very fair.

Many years ago I put a complaint in against an insurer who gave out wrong figure over an 9 year period on a pension value. In the end the FOS sided with the insurer as they said it was a genuine mistake and the person must have known the pension figure was wrong and as it was never that high they were not entitled to it. A goodwill figure of £450 was awarded.

So, given your issues are less than that, a figure of £225 seems very fair.

holly_hobby

HUFCsteve wrote: »

Update

Letter now received from First Direct, offering me £225 "in recognition of their regret".

They are asking me to accept this gesture in the spirit intended and return a signed Acceptance of Offer form.

If I accept their offer, does this preclude me from taking it any further?

Sorry missed this bit - if you do agree to the £225 and sign the acceptance it will be in "full and final settlement" - which means thats that ..... you are subsequently unable to raise the matter again as a complaint, or take the matter elsewhere to seek further compensation on top of what you have already recd.

Hope this helps

Holly

HUFCsteve

Thanks all for the replies.

I think I will accept the £225 and move on (and away from First Direct). NOt least as we're moving house next week.

I guessed that if I accept I'd be unable to subsequently raise the matter again as a complaint, or take the matter elsewhere (although this isn't what FD said over the phone to me).

The reason for ringing twice is that we were going through some scenarios associated with the new mortgage required at our new place and first wanted to be clear as to whether we could stay with FD (we couldn't). I simply asked for the redemption charge cos' it was easier than digging out our paperwork - I had no reason to believe that the member of staff at FD wouldn't know!!!

You have to laugh though. They've even got the figures wrong in the letter they've sent me. They've said that with the gesture of £225, this means that my ERC will be £2,800. I'm even happier to pay £2,800 as £3,075 minus £225 is £2,850!!!:beer:

michaels

Out of interest what level of fee would have made the remortgage worthwhile?b Suppose you were remortgaging to save £2500 then paying £2k would be worth it but obviously paying any more than 2.5k and you would not have bothered. Personally I would push for a bigger refund as you were given the wrong information twice - after all for all you know what the advisor was telling you might have been as the result of a change in policy by FD that over-rode your original T&C.

Thrugelmir

michaels wrote: »

after all for all you know what the advisor was telling you might have been as the result of a change in policy by FD that over-rode your original T&C.

Contractual terms cannot be over ridden.

Both parties would need to agree to the amendment. .

HUFCsteve

As mentioned before, the other thing that bothers me about all this is that FD's defence is based upon the fact that they had written to me originally with the correct information. And that this takes precedence over any verbal information I was given. If this is the case then surely this important caveat should be brought to the attention of all future callers to FD? Otherwise FD advisers can tell a customer anything!!!

Thrugelmir

HUFCsteve wrote: »

As mentioned before, the other thing that bothers me about all this is that FD's defence is based upon the fact that they had written to me originally with the correct information. And that this takes precedence over any verbal information I was given.

You signed the offer letter for your mortgage. In doing so agreed to the terms of the advance.

Surprising how many people fail to read the small print of contracts.

Anybody can make a mistake while performing their job.

real1314

I think the ombudsman would want you to show how the extra £1000 fee would have affected your decision.

And, once you had shown that, you would then need to show what amount of financial los this had caused you; i.e not the £1000 to FD but the loss of any reduced rate on your new mortgage due to lower deposit / fee impact etc.

I doubt that the FOS would see the 'phone conversation as binding and over-riding the contract, so compensation for any resultant losses would be the best you could expect. :cool: