Solar Panel Guide Discussion

grahamc2003

Doc_N wrote: »

Except that the FITs aren't actually being funded by the government (that's to say - us) but by an increase in energy charges levied by the suppliers on their customers (that's to say - us).

Less likelihood of the government deciding to reneague on its promise in this situation, because it isn't having to find the money itself through taxes.

I've read that argument many times, and never really understood it. All government funding is funded by us. So even if the payment did pass through the governemnt, it's still us who pay. True it comes from electricity users instead of taxpares, but generally they are the same people, i.e. us.

In any case, fits feed through to all the numbers the governments feel important, such as inflation, and the last thing the government want is higher inflation, which the fits will contribute to more and more.

I also seem to remember that the EU has clarified what the loading on electricity bills to pay for fits actually is, and that is a tax, so I assume the fits are accounted for in all government figures as a tax anyhow.

While you and I probably hold agreements and promises in very high regard, I'm not sure the government woulds lose much sleep about breaking any agreement in the light of changing circumstances.

With many other areas of government funding getting cut, I can't really see fits escaping and, out of fairness, I don't think they should escape. But that is just my view.

Cardew

It surely was never envisaged that the 'rent a roof' companies would pile in and install scores of thousands of systems and cream off all the subsidies so clearly intended for individuals.

The term 'poor bashing green energy' is totally appropriate. I cannot think of any measure that takes money directly from the poorest in the land and equally directly pays it to venture capitalists who have found a way to exploit a loophole.

It adds insult to injury that PV generation of electricity is without doubt the most inefficient way of producing 'green energy'.

John_Pierpoint

Personally I don't think the government will default on the awarded FiT subsidies, they are peanuts compared with other subsidies, such as the European Union and its subsidies to land owners, called The Common Agricultural Policy.
These payments may be hidden somewhere in the OECD statistics under the heading "tax", but it comes as a surprise to many people, even the self employed, that the basic rate of tax in the UK is circa 30% not 20%, because they don't think "National Insurance" is "Tax".

Picture the headlines "The UK defaults on its gilt edged interest rates" however stupid these historical commitments may now appear.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904353504576566762087401824.html

Gizmosmum_2

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

This is incorrect, the discussion is to show that in terms of performance, Schott are unlikely to be any different to, or better than Sharp and that noone would guarantee that a pack of either would perform better than the other, I doubt that, due to the effect of tolerances, any installer would guarantee that an equivalent kWp rated pack from any quality manufacturer would outperform any other over a decent period of time, and that would include the Sanyo HIT panels ..... and that's all I'm proposing ....

If your client is so confident that the Schott polycrystalline panels are so good and would outperform my mono units by anywhere near 9.6% (3355/3061) on a kWp v kWp basis then I would be confident and willing to pose a challenge .... As I have the space, I could put a second 4kWp system besides my current one as a new FiT install (new year), along with the same model inverter fitted too ... if the new install outperforms my current one over 12 months I'd pay for it, if not the installer (or Schott) can provide the installation for free and I'd even pay the additional DNO costs and a reasonable additional amount for matching my current mounting system.... I'm sure that they'll soon either find that the PVSOL results are incorrect or that their product confidence isn't quite what it's claimed to be ...

It's not just PVSOL which have issues with their database, I've seen problems with a particular SunTech module data in an old version of SunnyDesign and there was also a discussion on another make on this forum a few weeks/months ago regarding the database being incorrect, comparing the database to the specsheet we even found the reason ....

The issues really resolves down to your client. I take it that he/she/they currently provide Schott polycrystalline panels and do so mainly because of margin, are probably having serious competition issues and are therefore using any possible means to sell product, if not they'll jump at my challenge and all of the positive coverage it would produce for them ....

Anyway, I'm starting to get a little bored with this marketing hype, it has absolutely no positivity in promoting the adoption of pv technology to anyone who is interested. Of course, Schott is a good make, but singling out a company who actually manufacture product in the UK with so much directed negativity is a little frustrating, especially as much of the information is likely to be factually incorrect or anecdotal.

HTH
Z

Actually they install Phono, Suntech and Sanyo - what marketing hype are you talking about? You prefer Sunny Design most installers use PVSOL I'm not disputing either just putting an alternative opinion. Not right, not wrong, just an opinion that's different to yours

You clearly want to challenge everything I'm saying, I've provided the info in good faith, hassled my clients who are busy to put scenarios through their software in good faith but you still seem to think that it's all marketing hype - sorry I can't do anything about that.

Some of my friends have had Schott installed and have been delighted, I have Sharp and am too delighted although my Yingli panels on another house are performing better, as are the Schott panels.

I won't submit any more posts, they are obviously of no use other than to entertain others who have more time than I have. I just wish someone had taken the time to give me a bit more info when I was buying and had hoped to help others.

scoobydoo2011

right im looking at the free ones,
in had ecovision round and said yes we can have them,i load of paperwork has arrived for us to sign and get our mortgage provider to sign etc.


what happens?
they havent said anything about how many front/back of house,when we can use free electric

do we have a meter to monitor when we are using free/paid for?


any advise please?????

zeupater

Gizmosmum wrote: »

Actually they install Phono, Suntech and Sanyo - what marketing hype are you talking about? You prefer Sunny Design most installers use PVSOL I'm not disputing either just putting an alternative opinion. Not right, not wrong, just an opinion that's different to yours

You clearly want to challenge everything I'm saying, I've provided the info in good faith, hassled my clients who are busy to put scenarios through their software in good faith but you still seem to think that it's all marketing hype - sorry I can't do anything about that.

Some of my friends have had Schott installed and have been delighted, I have Sharp and am too delighted although my Yingli panels on another house are performing better, as are the Schott panels.

I won't submit any more posts, they are obviously of no use other than to entertain others who have more time than I have. I just wish someone had taken the time to give me a bit more info when I was buying and had hoped to help others.

Hi

I'm sorry that you think that way ... I believe that any challenge which I have made has been fair and unbiased, I have even been prepared to risk expenditure in order to back-up my views, obviously your client doesn't have the same faith in their own view, even though they use the professional PVSOL software, where I, not having access to PVSOL must rely on a free resource. However, this should have absolutely nothing to do with your own position, unless you are financially linked to the client that is .

I really still don't understand why, having Sharp panels installed yourself, you seem to believe the marketing hype which is so detrimental to your own panels ... I understand that you are posting in 'good faith', however, believing and actively posting that other makes are superior both in construction and performance without querying why an installer/supplier of these makes would have this particular view is a little perplexing ....

Myself, I have no 'clients' involved in the industry and only post from the point of view of someone who has on and off grid experience for around a decade and first built pv powered systems in the mid 1970's ... that's why I am always sceptical about pv performance claims, I'm one of the people who have had my fingers (and pocket) burned, learned my lessons and query everything which doesn't stand up to logical investigation.

I really do understand that different orientations of installations can effect performance, my system faces S/W and I am in a part of the country with a relatively low insolation compared to some. However, directly comparing systems over time with others I know of locally, my system isn't substantially outperformed by any other make, and that includes the much exalted Sanyo HIT panels ... it is this which forms the foundation of my scepticism over your clients PVSOL data showing a 9.6% advantage for Schott v Sharp and also why I tend to disbelieve the one-day comparitive performance claims on the Sanyo brochures, it doesn't make sense, that's why I believe that the SunnyDesign variance results are more likely to be correct and I'm really surprised that a quality installer with any decent experience would not take the same logical view ... ... Of course, if I compare my performance with some on the coast, especially the south coast (whatever the make), it looks pitiful, but like yourself I'm more than satisfied so far ....

If you do actually decide to not post again I really do believe it will be a loss to the forum. Although I may not agree with everything you post, you must have noticed that I do agree with much of the information which you provide, this being evidenced by a number of 'Thanked' posts ..... I therefore hope that you will reconsider the decision in the above post, but at the same time post more from the viewpoint of a forum community member as opposed to one which seems to be an informed & interested industry insider.

HTH
Z

zeupater

scoobydoo2011 wrote: »

right im looking at the free ones,
in had ecovision round and said yes we can have them,i load of paperwork has arrived for us to sign and get our mortgage provider to sign etc.


what happens?
they havent said anything about how many front/back of house,when we can use free electric

do we have a meter to monitor when we are using free/paid for?


any advise please?????

Hi

If you haven't already read them, make yourself a pot of tea, get comfortable and read through the following threads ....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2072787
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2637431

Panels will face South, so look for the sun at midday GMT (1pm BST), the panels will be on that side of the roof .... don't know whether that provider have an automated link or manual submission of meter readings, but doubt you'll have a remote monitor of any kind but you could possibly use an energy meter or two to see what's being generated & consumed, but how you do this depends on how they wire the system into your house ....

HTH
Z

Pedro1874

Anyone got any links to reviews from experienced owners? I would love to hear from anyone who has owned solar panels for a few years to hear about their results and income?

solarfriend

go to solarapproved dot com or try a1 affordable energy and say solar approved told you to contact them. he will give you some customers who have reviewed him and you can contact them direct. they are on the site. search by post code CV8 3PE. he is in the midlands.

solarfriend

my dad is going with evo energy and is delighted with the paperwork and they have provided a full drawing and list of what he will get. no presure and seemingly the better of the free people. contact me through solarapproved dot com and i will give you his number. he will tell you his experience of the "free" market. ask for chris