Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Waterlily24

dgworld wrote: »

I've had a cold call this week from a guy at Energy Reduction UK (www . energyreductionuk . com) who have offered to install FREE solar panels. Has anyone dealt with this company or have any experience of them?

Their website is a bit concerning to me and states they are trading as Energy Reduction Surveying Limited.

:beer: cheers for anyone with help!

Dave

Hi we had a guy from this company around, he wanted a cheque for £199 for 'scaffolding' which seemed a bit strange to me. When he left I phoned Trading Standards (I think - got through to CAB first but there was no one there to answer so got put through to Trading Standards). They said to get through to realassurance.org.uk either by their website or by phone to find out if they were a member of the organisation. I did and they weren't. Not sure exactly what this organisation is but trading standards advised not to deal with a company who weren't on their membership list.

Doc_N

More evidence that prices are starting to fall:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solar-Price-Breakthrough-4KW-only-8-495-YES-ONLY-8-495-Supply-Fitted-/320815897655


"Solar Price Breakthrough 4KW for only £8,495 YES ONLY £8,495--Supply & Fitted"

Lotus-eater

Doc_N wrote: »

More evidence that prices are starting to fall:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solar-Price-Breakthrough-4KW-only-8-495-YES-ONLY-8-495-Supply-Fitted-/320815897655


"Solar Price Breakthrough 4KW for only £8,495 YES ONLY £8,495--Supply & Fitted"

I'm confused by the 10% payback claim.

For example, one of the companies I got to quote me for a system gave figures at the time of a payback of 11%, after the 50% reduction in the FIT, I received an email saying that at the new rate I would still recieve 10% payback, same as this advert.

Tbh, I haven't even bothered looking into the figures, as they have to be skewed somehow.

digitaltoast

Lotus-eater wrote: »

I'm confused by the 10% payback claim.

For example, one of the companies I got to quote me for a system gave figures at the time of a payback of 11%, after the 50% reduction in the FIT, I received an email saying that at the new rate I would still recieve 10% payback, same as this advert.

Tbh, I haven't even bothered looking into the figures, as they have to be skewed somehow.

I'm confused by the whole site and company! The ebay ad talks about "my fantastic low price's" - bzzzt! Apostrophe abuse!

But the website's special offer for this month is:

3.84KW System
£11,495
Comprising of 16 x 240w Suntech panels (from the largest panel manufactor in the world).
Kostal inverter with local and remote monitoring system to see your system performing.
Revolutionary Click Fit roof mounting system.
All fully fitted & inclusive of VAT

But...

We will be launching a New Price list to combat the reduced FIT rate of 21p and still project a
14% plus rate of return.
We will have prices from £8,995

So you can just drop £2.5k off the price and still make a profit?

And I wonder if the person living at 28 Woodland View has given his permission for his address and image of his house to be splattered over and ebay ad?

The thing that would have me asking questions is... they claim MCS certification throughout the site, but I can't find any MCS registration in the database . You'd think they'd put the number on the site...

Sam_Lewis_2

Hi all,

My name is Sam Lewis and an energy consultant for a pv installation company. I have BA (Hons) in Geography and maintain a keen interest in renewable energy sources and would be more than happy to try and answer any questions you have about the solar industry.

Kind Regards,

Sam

Cardew

Sam_Lewis wrote: »

Hi all,

My name is Sam Lewis and an energy consultant for a pv installation company. I have BA (Hons) in Geography and maintain a keen interest in renewable energy sources and would be more than happy to try and answer any questions you have about the solar industry.

Kind Regards,

Sam

Welcome to the forum.

'Why do so many solar companies make unsupportable claims' would do for a start!

Sam_Lewis_2

Hi,

Thanks for the response. If you could elaborate more on what some of these unsupported claims are, because as an industry it is stipulated that we can only use Standard Assessment Procedure to calculate the output for any given system.

Sam

Sam_Lewis_2

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.

'Why do so many solar companies make unsupportable claims' would do for a start!

Hi,

Thanks for the response. If you could elaborate more on what some of these unsupported claims are, because as an industry it is stipulated that we can only use Standard Assessment Procedure to calculate the output for any given system.

Sam

sly_dog_jonah

Sam_Lewis wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for the response. If you could elaborate more on what some of these unsupported claims are, because as an industry it is stipulated that we can only use Standard Assessment Procedure to calculate the output for any given system.

Sam

Why do companies use wildly differing claims of the amount of generated energy you will use in the home? The EnergySavingTrust base their calculations on 25% usage, but most companies quote far higher or use the deemed 50% (which is only accurate for deemed export, not the usage).

One blog entry on YouGen used a 'usage figure' of 70% of the generated electricity to come up with a 10.7% return. Clearly such claims wildly exaggerate the likely usage of electricity possible from such a large system.

The SAP is fine for estimating generated output, but some over-egging of the financial returns is clearly prevalent across the industry.

Cardew

1. I suspect your company, along with all others, use the convenient(for solar companies) EST price of around 14p/kWh in pricing savings. That of course is the average price including standing charges/tier 1 price and ignoring discounts. Virtually all savings will be at the tier 2 price after discounts - so 10p/kWh would be a far more representative figure.

2. Invariably when calculating lifetime income an unrealistic future inflation rate and fuel inflation rate is used. Degredation of panel output is often ignored. The cost of repairs in 25 years is rarely given consideration - not only the cost of inverters but any diagnosis/repair of faults with cabling or panels will involve scaffolding(health and safety) and cost £hundreds if not £thousands.

3. When the FIT scheme was launched we were assured through MCS and REAL that solar PV sales wouldn't be marketed like Double Glazing of yesteryear - it would be to monitored standards. Yet there is plenty of evidence, even on MSE, that cowboys are operating throiughout the industry(again). As far as I am aware there is no independant check on the standard of installation in the manner of NHBC. It is left to the customer to complain to the installer - most of whom will have moved on from solar installations with the reduction in FIT.

Just today it was reported that a firm who took a load of £500 deposits and have gone out of business, have started up with a different name. Another quoting an outrageous price would knock off x thousand pounds for a contract signed today!

4. The solar thermal industry was a byword for sharp practice - ask any Trading Standard Office for their major source of complaint! and they have been the subject of many 'Watchdog' type programmes. Firms around the Dorset area, have closed down, restarted with a different name - same people, premises etc.

Outrageous claims of savings(several hundred pounds a year) The Government commissioned independant tests of 10 systems(both types) and on average they produced savings of 1,000kWh on Hot water a year - mainly in summer. This will save someone with gas around £40 a year, economy 7 around £50 and Oil £60(bear in mind you pay daytime electricity rates to power pump and electronics) Yet they are still being marketed for several thousand pounds - still a dreadful buy even if the proposed RHI rates come to fruition.