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Inexpensive but Ethical Underwear?

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This may not be the best place to post this, because I'm more concerned to be 'ethical' than 'green', but perhaps someone can point me to the answer if it's somewhere else.

I work for a women's charity, and one of the things we buy for our clients on a regular basis is underwear, especially knickers. In the past, we've bought mostly from Primark, because £4 for 7 pairs is hard to argue with on a purely monetary basis. But because of these reports that they're paying such poor wages and exploiting their workers (along with Tesco and Asda at least) we want to shop elsewhere. And we'll write to tell them why.

So, where do we go for ethical undies at a good price? Is there a 'league table' of high street clothing shops somewhere? Quality for the purposes of this exercise is not critical.

I have done a quick skim of Arkonite's sticky links, but I don't think the charity can afford truly green prices just yet ...
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  • Hi savvy sue,
    this is a very interesting one - charities with an eye on ethics can make it difficult for themselves to save money!

    I would suggest e-mailing some of the websites directly and asking if there is a potential opportunity to provide what is a growing market and provide work for poorer cummunities aboraod whilst helping women in the UK too?

    I have just "googled" ethical knickers and a few hits came up - and most of these sites have contact details. It could appeal to some of these businesses wanting to do all round good - I run my own business and social responsibilities are high on our agenda along with recycling and putting something back into our community. I would definitely look hard at this kind of request and maybe you could get lucky??

    Keep me posted as to how you get on and if you need any help with high impact wording etc then please let me know.

    All the very best wishes for an amazing Christmas and a very prosperous and healthy 2007!

    Working Mum
    (aka Paula!)
  • Justie
    Justie Posts: 1,768 Forumite
    it all depends on what you mean by ethical - cotton is one of the biggest users of pesticides etc. If you want ethical treatment of workers then most big companies have an ethical policy including Tescos (for what it's worth) and they'll mostly work to the local minimum standards etc. The news story whilst valid in raising the issues of minimum wage in factories shouldn't put you off buying from those companies but can be used to lobby them to improve the minimum standards. If Tescos et al pull out then the women who work in those factories will have no income and be worse off than getting the small wage they earn at present. (It's not easy being green as Kermit would say.)

    Some people boycott M&S because of their support for Israel so depending on what ethical criteria you're working to that may rule them out too.

    if price is your main criteria then most of the cheap producers will have similar working standards as those reported I'm afraid... you may want to look at the lifetime use of the knickers as part of your ethical outlook - a product that lasts is a better ethical buy than one that doesn't - (I have to declare myself as an M&S girl as for the price of their mulitpacks vs number of wears washes I think they're a sound investment and I can't afford to buy organic even though I know this is a better option for the environment) but if initial cost is your primary concern then it might not be an option to spend a little more at the outset...

    sorry I can't give you any specific ideas
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 47,310 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Thanks to you both.

    At the moment it's 'easy to get' I'm after, although longer term we may well contact groups who might be interested in doing this as a way of helping women make a livelihood - we purchase and use hand made cards from one group, and periodically get a batch of hand made bags to sell on to our friends and supporters.

    However I'm not sure we'll be able to order in sufficient quantities to make this viable as a separate line for anyone - there's a limit to what we can store while we work our way through stock!

    Justie, it is difficult to know what to do, isn't it? I've never been able to see how anyone can turn a profit when selling jeans for £3 a pair without exploiting the workers!

    I suspect our main ethical criteria relate to exploitation of women - and we're assuming, perhaps wrongly, that most of these workers WILL be women. I don't think we'd boycott M&S: Madam Treasurer is Jewish, although I have to say not a particular fan of the Israeli government ... Her usual rants are against Tesco, who are an evil empire with whom we should have no dealings!

    I do see what you are saying about the wash / wear : price ratio, but for reasons which need not detain us now :o durability isn't the main consideration for work. Although once I've worked out where to go for work, I'll probably try them for the boys' undies. I'm a Sloggi girl myself ...

    have just had a thought: I think Christian Aid did a campaign last year when they were encouraging people to go into clothes stores and ask what their policy on treatment of the workers was, and if no-one could answer that to leave a card. Their site is a bit temperamental right now, but if I manage to answer my own question, I'll get back to you all!
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  • Justie
    Justie Posts: 1,768 Forumite
    it is hard and whilst it's hard to see how anyone selling jeans at £3 can be paying workers fair wages there's no guarantee that those selling them for £100 are being any more fair in their treatment of workers...

    How about your local market? Likely to be cheap and often they sell overstock etc from leading stores and that way you're at least supporting a local business instead of a national one... Otherwise places like TJ Hughes may well stock sloggis or other branded ones cheaply.

    and yes most of the workers in the factories reported are women but as I said earlier whilst their minimum wage is appallingly low it's still a wage and if that's withdrawn then there's no other way of them earning anythng near as much... it's the proverbial rock and hard place...
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 47,310 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Right, via the Christian Aid website I found a link to the Ethical Trade Initiative, and they have a list of members which includes Tesco and Asda, although not Primark which is where I've usually bought from. So now I don't know WHAT to do, because I'm sure Tesco and Asda were named in the report that's got my colleague's knickers in a twist. :rotfl:

    Other suggestions from the ETI list for me to try are Sainsbury's and Debenhams. We'll have to have a knicker comparison session ...
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  • tr3mor
    tr3mor Posts: 2,325 Forumite
    A small wage is better than no wage at all surely?

    If Tesco paid its sweat shop staff a western wage it would lead to huge resentment from employees of local firms and likely hyperinflation due to many more people being able to afford a higher price.
  • crutches
    crutches Posts: 1,065 Forumite
    sue when i worked for a womens charity we got loads of post christmas donations of undies via round table/soroptomists/lions ladies etc.

    many were see-through and obviously unwanted xmas gifts!.it used to keep us and our clients amused for a while and many were used as a "perk me up" at a time when fancy undies were not the first priority.

    perhaps a discreet appeal to local goodwill/goodworks charities (or even your local paper) for unwanted NEW undies or toiletries would be an idea?

    or lidl/aldi when they have them as these are often german standard unbleached ones?
    Every day above ground is a good one ;)
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 47,310 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    We do indeed get given undies from time to time, we were given a lovely box by a market trader at the end of the summer, which we designated as Christmas Knickers and everyone got a pair with their other little gifts. But during the year we do like to have a supply of fairly standard ones, because our clients do tend to compare notes (and knickers!) and if they think they're missing out on something they HAVE to have whatever anyone else has, whether they need it or not.

    I will look out for them in Lidl / Aldi, one of my colleagues lives almost opposite one so that can be her Mission!

    We are also given lots of toiletries. And mince pies. And chocolate. People are very generous ...
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  • hi Savvy Sue,

    not sure if this is still of use to you as you posted in 2006!

    there's a good site called war on want which provides info about which companies take what measures to fight abuse.

    companies signed up to the ETI do not necessarily follow ethical guidelines. they just work w/ the eti, sometimes very half heartedly, to improve conditions. however the eti can help to encourage change. the ethical consumer report said that they couldn't even recommend the highest rated shops as conditions were so terrible.

    sainsbury's pays its employees closer to the minimum living wage than most supermarkets last time i checked.

    or amnesty sells packs of pants quite cheaply with the £ going to a good cause too.

    you can send your receipts from previous purchases to primark and request a response as to how your £ is improving conditions of its employees to give them the message that ppl care about its bad practices.

    @ Tr3mor - the term "living wage" varies from country to country, no one (that i'm aware of) is campaigning for a western wage to be paid to employees overseas - these things vary.

    @ Justie - just because you don't shop at Primark, doesn't mean you don't shop! when ppl stop buying at places like that due to ethical concerns, they still wear clothes (well most of them!) - which they look for at more ethical alternatives. the £ that you don't spend in primark you will spend in supporting a co operative clothes producer, or one with better values, or you can buy from charities thereby supporting the ppl primark employs - who are paid so little they often have to rely on govt/charity food parcels :(

    ethical consumer - home of ethiscores - rates various companies on various ethics

    war on want - info on fighting poverty/malpractice

    amnesty shop - source of pants :p

    (sorry can't post links yet, new user, easy to find on search engines though)

    i hope this is helpful, i'm very interested in ethical production, and enjoyed + learned from this thread :) thanks!

    littlelilac
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 47,310 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    i hope this is helpful, i'm very interested in ethical production, and enjoyed + learned from this thread :) thanks!
    Just wondering how you found this thread after all this time. :rotfl:

    Some links:

    ethical consumer - home of ethiscores - rates various companies on various ethics

    war on want - info on fighting poverty/malpractice

    amnesty international and their shop - no underpants but a search for knickers found some, although not the styles we need (thongs).

    Another I've found is Pants to Poverty, same problem as with Amnesty.
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