The dysfunctional UK housing market.

Turnbull2000

I'd say those that matter will believe a market of continued high prices, rising rents and even harsher supply restrictions is actually rather good, with a fully functioning returning once transactions rise and house prices march upwards again.

mbga9pgf

We are renting out 1 bed self contained house on our property for 450 a month. Includes water rates and Council tax. I dont recognise these figures above.

macaque_2

Cleaver wrote: »

I always know I've made a decent point when you can't think of anything to say and have to post a picture of a monkey.

Er no. What you said was:

C'mon Macaque, use your common sense. As if the average UK 2-bed flat is £1,102 a month. In Birmingham, for example, there are only 62 2-bed flats out of thousands and thousands that are listed for over £1,000 a month on Rightmove.

Phrases like 'use your common sense' fails the 70% club debating test and is likely to get a sleeping monkey response. To give you some credit, you have taken a cursory glance at the Righmove website. Unfortunately you have used a biased sample from a low rent hot spot.

I see that the bulls have been frothing at the data I posted on average rents. Well, my response to this is; put up some better data. Trying to concoct a case on the basis that the sample for calculating average rents should include sheds, attics and broom cupboards is not good enough. A young couple in their late 20's need 2 bedrooms and if they have children, 3+ bedrooms.

I am perfectly prepared to accept that such stats will vary according to the age and scource of the data. What you can be sure of however is that the numbers I have put up are much nearer the truth than brother Hamish's figures.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

macaque wrote: »

Well, my response to this is; put up some better data. .

I already did.

I posted DCLG average rents, LSL Rent Index average rents, and now I'm going to point out the blindingly obvious.

You claim a 2 bed flat average rental is £1100 per month.

I note that the average house price for 2 bed flats will be less than the average of all houses...... So I'd estimate 140K or so.

Rent of £1100 per month on a £140,000 would give an average rental yield of 9.4%. Well above every estimate of the current average yield of 5% or so.

PasturesNew

LHA rates are a better indicator for any region, than what's on Rightmove.

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

Phrases like 'use your common sense' fails the 70% club debating test and is likely to get a sleeping monkey response. To give you some credit, you have taken a cursory glance at the Righmove website. Unfortunately you have used a biased sample from a low rent hot spot.

I see that the bulls have been frothing at the data I posted on average rents. Well, my response to this is; put up some better data. Trying to concoct a case on the basis that the sample for calculating average rents should include sheds, attics and broom cupboards is not good enough. A young couple in their late 20's need 2 bedrooms and if they have children, 3+ bedrooms.

I am perfectly prepared to accept that such stats will vary according to the age and scource of the data. What you can be sure of however is that the numbers I have put up are much nearer the truth than brother Hamish's figures.

Macaque, please, it's okay to admit you're wrong. We all know, from pure and simple common sense, that the average two bed flat in this country is not around £1,100 a month. That's just preposterous. Birmingham isn't a 'low-rent' hotspot, but would you like me to pick out some other examples from Rightmove of the number of flats in an area which has two bedrooms and rent for over £1000 a month?

Leeds: 47 out of thousands
Swindon: 2 out of 170
Leicester: 7 out of 213
Torquay: 0 out of 29
Exeter: 2 out of 31
Ipswich: 2 out of 150
Manchester: 130 out of thouands
Glasgow: 10 out of thousands
Edinburgh: 37 out of 278
Reading: 71 out of 259
Crawley: 4 out of 121
Croydon: 108 out of 336
Milton Keynes: 24 out of 111
Cheltenham: 20 out of 101

In fact, here's a challenge. Can you find any area which has more than 50% of 2-bed flats at more than £1,000 a month outside of the M25? Off the top of my head I can think of Oxford and maybe some areas of the South East or South West?

But in the vast, vast majority of areas it's maybe 5%, 10% or possibly up to 20% of two bed flats that rent for over £1,000 a month. Essentially this is a story of London vs the rest of the UK. Getting a 2-bed flat in London for less that £1000 a month must be nigh on impossible, whereas it's hard to find many 2-bed flats for that amount in the rest of the country.

macaque_2

Cleaver wrote: »

Macaque, please, it's okay to admit you're wrong. We all know, from pure and simple common sense, that the average two bed flat in this country is not around £1,100 a month. That's just preposterous. Birmingham isn't a 'low-rent' hotspot, but would you like me to pick out some other examples from Rightmove of the number of flats in an area which has two bedrooms and rent for over £1000 a month?

Leeds: 47 out of thousands
Swindon: 2 out of 170
Leicester: 7 out of 213
Torquay: 0 out of 29
Exeter: 2 out of 31
Ipswich: 2 out of 150
Manchester: 130 out of thouands
Glasgow: 10 out of thousands
Edinburgh: 37 out of 278
Reading: 71 out of 259
Crawley: 4 out of 121
Croydon: 108 out of 336
Milton Keynes: 24 out of 111
Cheltenham: 20 out of 101

In fact, here's a challenge. Can you find any area which has more than 50% of 2-bed flats at more than £1,000 a month outside of the M25? Off the top of my head I can think of Oxford and maybe some areas of the South East or South West?

But in the vast, vast majority of areas it's maybe 5%, 10% or possibly up to 20% of two bed flats that rent for over £1,000 a month. Essentially this is a story of London vs the rest of the UK. Getting a 2-bed flat in London for less that £1000 a month must be nigh on impossible, whereas it's hard to find many 2-bed flats for that amount in the rest of the country.

Cleaver, I don't know how long it took you to do this. Thank your for the challenge but I will pass on this one. Its Sunday afternoon and the sun is shining.

The numbers in the OP are not mine. If you have a problem with the Rentright numbers, I should take it up with them. Even if we take a lower number for rental of £900 per month, this is still over 50% of the average take home income (before council tax, gas, electricity, water etc). Your challenge of my op is like a sailor on the deck of the Titanic arguing about the size of the iceberg.

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

Cleaver, I don't know how long it took you to do this. Thank your for the challenge but I will pass on this one. Its Sunday afternoon and the sun is shining.

It took about two or three minutes. Rightmove in one window, this forum in another and just type in some random placenames. Won't take you more than a few minutes to give it a go. Don't worry, I've still had time to finish my book in the sunshine this afternoon.

macaque wrote: »

The numbers in the OP are not mine. If you have a problem with the Rentright numbers, I should take it up with them. Even if we take a lower number for rental of £900 per month, this is still over 50% of the average take home income (before council tax, gas, electricity, water etc). Your challenge of my op is like a sailor on the deck of the Titanic arguing about the size of the iceberg.

Where have I argued that rental / housing costs aren't excessive? I agree with you, they are. I'd like to see house prices and rent come down, and I think they will. But back to the point in hand, I don't know where that website gets its figures but it's clear for all to see that the average rent, median or mean, of a 2-bed flat in the UK isn't anywhere near £1,100. Just a few minutes on Rightmove shows that it clearly isn't the case, it doesn't take a statistical analysis.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

macaque wrote: »

If you have a problem with the Rentright numbers, I should take it up with them. Even if we take a lower number for rental of £900 per month, .

Thing is old boy, we've already provided you with 2 better sources and a list of most major cities in the UK showing rents are VASTLY cheaper than you claim.

The average for all properties is just £695.... The average for flats only will be less.

More than likely it's around £550 - £600. Which is around 35% of average take home pay.

Cheap by historical standards.

Plenty of rent increases ahead, methinks....;)

RenovationMan

Do people not rent houses together anymore? I know I used to with my mates. It was a great laugh.