SERPS pension losses

thehorologist

jamesd wrote: »

Here's the link for the contracted out helpline.

I was asking about a shorter delay of my own, much of which was after I'd asked HMRC to investigate why the payment hadn't been made.

Don't expect an immediate answer from the helpline. What they will do is probably confirm that redress payment are possible and tell you the address to write to. You'll have much less chance of success than me because of the longer time that has elapsed. Knowing when you discovered the discrepancy and how soon after that you acted may matter.

Thanks for this information, I am about to follow this up straight away. It is only with persistance that I have recently discovered this delay. I had not become aware of this until I approached retirement (Sept 2011) So although the problem occurred some years ago there was little chance of me discovering it until now.

Many thanks.

jem16

thehorologist wrote: »

Thanks for this. In order to understand your reply, are you saying that my NI contribution taken from my salary from April 1987 would not normally be invested in my personal pension until July-Sept 1988?

Noh is correct. Contracted out rebates are paid around September/October for the last tax year. So your rebate for the tax year 87/88 would be paid in September 88.

See;
http://www.pensionsnetwork.com/stakeholder_pensions/s2p.html

and specifically;

"When does the NI Rebate get paid to my stakeholder pension plan?

The rebate payment is usually paid to the insurance company around September/October from the last tax year, although it can take longer depending on when the tax office dealing with your affairs forwards on your NI rebate."

Where has the money been for that period?

Being collected by HMRC from your wages.

When you mention "rebates" are you referring to my NI contributions or just the tax incentives?

Rebate is the name given when you contract out as you get a rebate of some of the NI that you have paid.

So assuming for the moment that it would normally be July-Sept before my contributions were applied to my personal pension, how do I go about demonstrating any losses for the period July-Sept until February the following year?

Were there any losses though? Perhaps your tax office sends them in February. When was the 2nd payment made? If it's normally Sep/Oct you could argue over a delay of 4/5 months but not 22 months. Problem is though that it may have been to your advantage if your funds fell in price from October 88 to February 89.

jamesd

noh wrote: »

The key words here are "demonstrated losses".

Agreed. In my case HMRC at first failed to correct the problem after I'd phoned them and asked them to. A rebate for a new year then arrived making me think it had been fixed. It wasn't until a year after the first call, when chasing the most recent year, that I found the payment made was for the most recent year and the original problem hadn't been fixed. I can point to my purchase history to demonstrate how I would have invested the money.

thehorologist wrote: »

ow do I go about demonstrating any losses for the period July-Sept until February the following year?

You use your investment history to prove how the money would have been invested and the value change in the investments to show what that cost you.

Billopp

Hi.

I have become a bit of an expert on this subject as I helped my daughter get compensation on her contracted out pension. I agree that according to the DWP rules the tax rebate should be with the insurance company by the Sept/Oct at the latest. In my daughters case seven out of nine years were paid after Sept/Oct. It took me about a couple of years to find out why the rebates were paid late.

To work out if you have a loss or not you first have to go to your insurer to find out when they received the rebate and applied it to your policy. If it was received after say Oct you then ask your insurance company to work out if you had lost any investment return by receiving the rebate after Oct. In my daughters case her policy was split into two 50% with profit and 50% equities (Shares).
It was then easy to get the Insurance company to work out the loss on the with profit element as every day paid late there was a loss of bonus.
On the equity part there may or may not be a loss for the following reason depending on ithe equity market being up or down on the date the money was applied to the policy compared to the date the money should have been applied to the policy which I think is the end of Oct following the end of the tax year.
The Insurance company then had to contact the DWP to tell them about the loss and ask them for the money to make up the loss.
I think there was only one year where she was better off for the equity part of her policy.
It took me a great deal of trouble to find out why the money had been paid late and they tried to say it was not their fault. I foud out that the the money had been received in time by the tax office but had not been passed on by her company's tax office in time. At the time I remember reading that they were having trouble with their computer systems.

thehorologist

dunstonh wrote: »

there is the FSA guide. It was first published in 2008 and reprinted in June 2009. I don't believe the FSA publish it anymore as it turned into such a non-issue.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100210151716/moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/pdfs/s2p_wrongly_advised_ink.pdf



Thank you very much for this very useful link.
I wonder if some of the original publicity material circa 1986/87 (from which I made my decision to opt out) is still available to view. Two companies I paid particular attention to were HSBC Midland and Sun life direct.

thehorologist

thehorologist wrote: »

dunstonh wrote: »

there is the FSA guide. It was first published in 2008 and reprinted in June 2009. I don't believe the FSA publish it anymore as it turned into such a non-issue.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100210151716/moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/pdfs/s2p_wrongly_advised_ink.pdf



Thank you very much for this very useful link.
I wonder if some of the original publicity material circa 1986/87 (from which I made my decision to opt out) is still available to view. Two companies I paid particular attention to were HSBC Midland and Sun life direct.

30 August.I thought I might give an update on progres since my last posting. I originally complained ( June) that my pension pot would provide less than I would have received had I stayed in SERPS. Many reported that I should have managed my fund better. Undetered I plowed on and eventually decided the only way I was going to meet the same level as SERPs would be to defer taking my best market option anuity until next April when it would no longer be neccessary to take a 50% wifes pension. (She has her own pension) So I opted to defer my pension due Sept. until April next and convert the pension pot to a Cash fund in the antime. After taking the information Sun Life direct did nothing so I contacted them. They were unable to say why the fund had not been trnsferred and did not know about the April 2012 option. Eventually I got the answer that it was not possible under my policy to change funds. So after all the fuss anxiety and research I never had the oportuinity to manage the fund anyway. So I now have to hope that by difering unitl Apri I will no sustain any losses. Who knows certain Sun Life havn't got a clue.

dunstonh

So after all the fuss anxiety and research I never had the oportuinity to manage the fund anyway.

Yes you did. Whilst your existing provider didnt offer it, there were plenty of others who would. Old fashioned, obsolete plans often have limited options. That is why you keep them under review and update them periodically.

Who knows certain Sun Life havn't got a clue.

You wouldnt expect them to. It's not their job on the front line side. It's a bit like going to Tescos and asking the cashier the corporate objectives and how economies of scale works in their shop.