Five minute observation for PCN's

zwypl

Let me commence with an extract of the Code of Practice:-

londoncouncils.gov.uk/London%20Councils/CodeofPracticeonCivilParkingandTrafficEnforcem%20(2).pdf

OBSERVATION TIMES

46) Some contraventions are ‘instant’ and a PCN can be issued immediately. These include ‘absolute’ contraventions, such as parking on the footway where this is prohibited) and locations where there are either no or extremely few but obvious exceptions to a general rule (such as stopping where parking, loading and unloading are prohibited).

47) In other cases there may be sufficient exemptions to a general rule as to cause some doubt as to whether a contravention has occurred at the time of the initial appearance of the parking attendant. A good example is where loading and unloading on a yellow line or in a loading box / bay is allowed. In these circumstances a period of observation can help to establish whether or not an exemption applies. Five minutes is the generally accepted period of observation, although consideration could be given to extending this period for commercial vehicles, where it is more likely that loading / unloading is taking place. While a PCN may be issued before the end of the observation period, the authority will need to have much stronger evidence to rebut an assertion that the vehicle was exempt, for example, because it was loading, than if an observation period was included.

So I ask (1) what is the case after the expiry of meter payment after the expiry of the paid time (2) what is teh case whne payment is done by phone and expired. Does teh five minute observation rule apply or not?

muckybutt

zwypl wrote: »

So I ask (1) what is the case after the expiry of meter payment after the expiry of the paid time

If the time has expired then its upto the council as to wether they ticket you straight away or not, if you were loading then you wouldnt have a ticket so they would observe that you were actually loading and unloading

zwypl wrote: »

(2) what is the case when payment is done by phone and expired. Does the five minute observation rule apply or not?

Again if say you were ten minutes over the expired time then I would imagine a ticket would be issued straight away with no obs time as you have already breached time by 10 mins, a lot of machines state you have to pay straight away, ie it is YOUR responsibility to have the cash to pay there and then. They dont have to give any obs period.

zwypl

I was asking if it needs the five minutes OBSERVATION i.e. the actual PCFN to state seen from :00 untill :05 The offence is in a pay by phone bay after the expired time.

Coupon-mad

zwypl wrote: »

I was asking if it needs the five minutes OBSERVATION i.e. the actual PCFN to state seen from :00 untill :05 The offence is in a pay by phone bay after the expired time.

I believe it's up to the Council whether they apply 5 mins grace in that situation. Most don't, I think, but their Parking Places Order would have to state the position clearly along with the amount of penalty, etc. Was this a Council PCN? If so then post a copy of both sides of the PCN on pepipoo forums in a new topic. They will help you to find grounds for appeal you hadn't even thought of:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

You called it a PCFN though which is confusing? What's the title on the ticket and was it a Council who issued it?

multiflorum

There is no need for an observation time as there is nothing to observe. Observation times are only needed to prove sufficient time as been given to see if an exemption applies or not.

For example there is no need for an observation time on a PCN for a vehicle that is ticketed for not displaying a blue badge in a designated disabled bay as there is nothing to observe the badge is either there or not.

A car on double yellow lines may be loading\unloading which is permitted so an observation time is needed to in an attempt to see if this exemption applies or not.

P&D tickets are either in time or not and its completely up to the local authority if any grace period is allowed.

Hope this helps

Oopsadaisy

Surely vehicles in most situations could be 'loading/unloading' so one could claim that ob was required before ticketing [except for the 'absolute' offences amentioned at the top]???

halibut2209

I keep imagining all the MSE posters standing still, heads bowed, for 5 minutes of silence as we recall the untimely demise of PPCs

RIP Perky. We hardly knew you

multiflorum

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

Surely vehicles in most situations could be 'loading/unloading' so one could claim that ob was required before ticketing [except for the 'absolute' offences amentioned at the top]???

Loading\unloading is not always an exemption and therefore no ob would be required in these instances