your advise on rejection letters please

bluenoseam

Miss_Scrooge wrote: »

Can I ask why a cover letter/e-mail can't be addressed with a "hi". Don't you think that is being a little nitpicky??

I address all my e-mails with a "Hi" followed by the person's name. It's polite but not too formal.

For a management position (infact for pretty much any position - but especially true with management) I would expect the salutation to be either Dear *title* XYZ at the very least. I open letters to my friends with Hi, it's far too informal for someone you do not know - even if by chance you happen to know the recruiter it is more appropriate as it's business to open & end the letter formally. I can't say it's a generational thing since I'm only 26 and certainly when it comes to a management position I would expect a degree of professionalism to match the position.

Manners cost nothing but are worth their weight in gold, especially when looking to make an impression, so if you want to be remembered it would be best to follow etiquette wherever possible.

mlz1413

Yes that is a copy of my original post.

YOU SAID

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

The original question was regarding putting information about notice period and required salary in the covering letter; and the OP doesn't seem to have any idea why that isn't always included and is thereby binning applicants just because they don't include it.

The quality of the sentence asking the company to view the CV is a completely different matter; and the OP has now changed their query to how to respond to a very simplistic request.

I say - if the OP really and truly can't work out that their recruitment practices are flawed, then they will continue to get letters that are not up to scratch. The notice period and salary is a red herring it would seem as the OP doesn't know how to respond to badly written covering letters. So much for their own ability to learn.

So I was asking if feedback should be given and you were aguring the toss over content.

Sambucus_Nigra

mlz1413 wrote: »

Yes that is a copy of my original post.

YOU SAID



So I was asking if feedback should be given and you were aguring the toss over content.

I'm not arguing the toss about content, you asked for specifics and then questioned me when I pointed out that you asked about specifics.

Very odd.

As we can see from your own writing on here, your grammar and spelling aren't perfect but you would still reject someone on the same grounds.

e.g. - It's advice you are after not advise and your own title is not perfect, is missing capitals etc etc....pot>kettle and all that

dickydonkin

kazzah60 wrote: »

I do believe this could be a generational issue - I am 49 and come from an era where letter writing and CV skills were taught during our O level English language classes ( language and literature were separate subjects in the olden days!)
I would NOT consider
" Hi
can you take a look at my Cv for the position"
as being an appropriate "covering letter" for an applicant.

to me, it smacks of informality which I feel is insulting towards the recipient - but I am sure this is simply due to my age and being taught how to write letters properly.

As an aside - the other thing which drives me mad- is text speak in posts - but I know I am heading towards grumpy old woman status now :rotfl:

Then I am a grumpy old man then!;)

I totally agree with you about 'text speak' in posts/emails etc.

Reminds me of where I used to work where an HR administrator (who should have known better) would send emails in such a manner.

I would deliberately ignore them.

Totally unprofessional and it looked awful - bearing in mind some of these were copied to senior management.

'Hi' is OK I suppose for messages between colleagues of similar status - but certainly not for job applications.

I suppose I am of the 'old school' as well as far as letter writing is concerned - but surely that is not a bad thing.

DVardysShadow

Late to the party on this, but I agree with the below

wuckfit wrote: »

To be honest, as a potential employee, I'd see your requirement as an attempt to get someone 'on the cheap', rather than the best candidate. I'd also think that you'd be using the salary requirement as a selection criteria.

Also, the complete package is important to many people. some people might be willing to sacrifice some salary for more attractive aspects, such as flexible working, an extra couple of days holiday, that sort of thing.

I'd certainly not be looking to talk salary until the end of an interview. Any employer that wants salary expections up front puts me off.

I once saw an ad for a job in a small company which could have been a good match both ways, but the description was a little vague and of course, no salary was stated. I phoned the number on the ad, which was clearly indicated "If you have any questions please ring ...." and stated my interest in the job and that I wanted to know a bit more about it to receive a tongue lashing that she was not going to divulge the salary, I would have to put in my CV and find out about the job if I was lucky enough to be shortlisted

I think she was the MD's secretary, who fancied herself as head of Personnel. I decided I was not going to waste my time on getting a job where that self important cow had so much influence.

If a company cannot be clear about its salary expectations and the job description, I have always been suspicious that the rest of their processes were to stopcock. That experience only reinforced my view.

bluenoseam

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Late to the party on this, but I agree with the below



I once saw an ad for a job in a small company which could have been a good match both ways, but the description was a little vague and of course, no salary was stated. I phoned the number on the ad, which was clearly indicated "If you have any questions please ring ...." and stated my interest in the job and that I wanted to know a bit more about it to receive a tongue lashing that she was not going to divulge the salary, I would have to put in my CV and find out about the job if I was lucky enough to be shortlisted

I think she was the MD's secretary, who fancied herself as head of Personnel. I decided I was not going to waste my time on getting a job where that self important cow had so much influence.

If a company cannot be clear about its salary expectations and the job description, I have always been suspicious that the rest of their processes were to stopcock. That experience only reinforced my view.

I think we all know that there are a number of secretaries out there who fancy themselves as miniature fascists who appear to be put out by anyone else drawing breath!

DVardysShadow

mlz1413 wrote: »

thanks for the replies.

The notice period is asked for as we are on a tight deadline and so wanted to use this within the selection critaria but it would not be a high priority just used if lots of choice.

The salary requirement is so we don't interview someone great who we just can't afford, it may look like a ploy to get the cheapest person in but it isn't.

Wuckfit - My personal opinion is if you can't be bothered to address the request, ie by putting something like 'I look forward to discussing salary details with you at interview', then your attention to details is limited.

S Nigra - this is my quandary if the CV is good and the covering letter is bad is that a sign the person will be hard to teach? as in they don't read things to the end or they can't be bothered with details or is it just how people apply for jobs.

An Example is below:
Hi
can you please have a look at my Cv for above role

I felt like emailing straight back saying NO WAY!

The sins as I see them: 1)You don't address a covering letter with Hi, 2) you should have a capital on 'can', 3) CV is not Cv and 4) you haven't bothered giving your notice period or salary requirements either. 5) no full stop at the end. Making 5 errors in 13 words is a pretty poor application to my mind!

OK, this is the classic Time, Cost, Quality triangle.

You want someone

• immediately [Time]
• within your salary specification [Cost]
• who can communicate adequately and who meets other criteria [Quality]

Generally you can position yourself in any one corner of the triangle - or you can put yourself on an edge between any 2 of the characteristics above. But you cannot put yourself in all 3 corners at once.

Have a think now about which of the characteristics you can compromise on - or rank these characteristics, because it will make the process and your final decision much easier

heretolearn_2

I wouldn't discard an application just because of a 'Hi' in the email unless it got to the stage of shortlisting where I had to start getting picky just to get the numbers down.

I find it very unprofessional though. I think a business email should be written in exactly the same way as a business letter. Until you have a professional relationship with someone that lends itself to an informal approach, you should be formal. For example, I always start off addressing clients by Dear Mr Thompson, for example, and with a lot of clients it will stay that way forever. Then there are some clients who make it clear they welcome and prefer a more informal approach, and they will start to be 'Hi Jiim' instead. But it's down to the client to set the appropriate approach.

Addressing anyone for the first time, in a formal letter/email, as Hi or Hi first name is totally inappropriate. If I took that person on they'd be getting a remedial training session on business communications.

mlz1413

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

I'm not arguing the toss about content, you asked for specifics and then questioned me when I pointed out that you asked about specifics.

Very odd.

As we can see from your own writing on here, your grammar and spelling aren't perfect but you would still reject someone on the same grounds.

e.g. - It's advice you are after not advise and your own title is not perfect, is missing capitals etc etc....pot>kettle and all that

I know I can't spell but equally when I'm applying for a job I use spell check.

anyway I got into an argument that was off my topic its just that I have strong personal feelings on the subject.

think the best thing I can do when replying to poor applications is be very specific to the person or just send a standard no letter - when its been spell checked.

Emmzi

I don't give any specific reasons for rejection from letters/ cvs as I have had too many candidates want to argue the toss with me and I can't be bothered with their version of why they are great after all. Seriously, don't get into it.

I'll do oral interview feedback if asked but not as a matter of course. Feedback only if they show they are generally receptive of it.