Night workers and vitamin D

SEK_2

My dh works regular nights and has done for 8yrs. During the summer months he copes well but during the winter months he doesn't seem to cope well at all. He goes from being a happy and positive person to being miserable and negative about everything.
Some weeks he can go days without seeing daylight. It gets dark so early now. By the time he gets up in the afternoon, has a shower and something to eat it's dark!
I have been reading alot about vitamin D and i'm thinking it might be worth a try. Does anybody have any views on vitamin D, what dosage he should take bearing in mind he rarely sees daylight and where's the best place to buy it from.

Ted_Hutchinson

Everyone living in the UK would benefit from raising vitamin d status during the Winter months. No one (nightworker or not) can make vitamin d from sunlight between the end of October and March so we all to some extent have lower than ideal levels of vitamin d3 cholcecalciferol.

The reason I keep stating Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol is because Vitamin d may also be sold as Vitamin d2 ergocalciferol and this is less effective. See The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin ...

The cheapest source of high strength Vitamin d3 is BIO-TECH Pharmacal Inc.
For most people their 5000iu capsules will be fine.
Those people with a residual suntan from plenty of regular sunbathing in the summer will probably be fine with one of these 5000iu capsules twice a week 10,000iu in total /7 about 1500iu/d
Taking three @5000iu= 15,000iu= roughly 2000iu/d and an adequate amount for most reasonably vitamin d replete people.
For vulnerable people, the elderly, the obese , those with MS, most cancers, low immune status, depression or SAD, 4000iu/d or 6 capsules a week is absolutely safe(perhaps I should declare I take one 5000iu capsule every day but I fit into 3 of the above categories)
Anyone worried about Vitamin d toxicity should read this but the problems with vitamin d only arise when people have exceeded 10,000iu/d for many months. The amounts I've suggested are well below the toxicity level supported by the latest research findings. Bear in mind that MOST people will be able to stop taking supplements as soon as the weather warms up from March onwards.

For those people who are currently certain their status is bound to be low then the supplier linked to above supplies 100x50,000iu capsules for a modest amount. ONE of these capsules taken ONCE a week for eight weeks would restore low levels following that ONE X 50,000iu every FORTNIGHT, (50,000/14=approx 3.500iu/d.

The half life of vitamin d3 once in your body is about 3 weeks so it's perfectly sensible to take one VERY high strength capsule occasionally instead of taking smaller amounts every day.

The Antibiotic Vitamin

The Vitamin D council

SEK_2

Thank you Ted for your reply.

Would you suggested, considering my dh situation, that the very high dose ones, once a week for 8wks and then fortnightlightly, is the best way to go for him. I am thinking it probaly is.

Ted_Hutchinson

SEK wrote:

Thank you Ted for your reply.

Would you suggested, considering my dh situation, that the very high dose ones, once a week for 8wks and then fortnightlightly, is the best way to go for him. I am thinking it probaly is.

You are tempting me to cross the sites "NO Medical Advice" rule.

So I must not give you a direct answer. I can point out that if you were in financial debt and obliged to spend £4000 a day (the body uses between 3-5000iu vit d daily) you would need to pay into your account MORE than £4000 daily spend, to make any headway into the overdraft situation.

It is certain that the first few weeks of taking more vitamin d a week than you actually use will raise you vitamin d status, which is what needs to happen. Anything less than 4000iu/d simply leaves the deficit situation as it is but ensures it doesn't get any worse. So although he wouldn't get worse he won't get significantly better until the Spring/summer sunshine.

Without an 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood test it's impossible to know what current levels are or how large a dose of extra vitamin d is required. So without this test it has to be an educated guess.

Perhaps it would help you to know that I've just ordered some of the 50,000iu capsules. They actually work out cheaper than 10 of the 5000iu and we're going to have some relations visit over Christmas who are almost certainly going to be run down. I will be offering a few of these to my visitors if the subject of Winter Blues or Low immune status is raised.

Promoting Health and Preventing Illness with Vitamin D. Also used as an Adjunct to improve treatments for Cancer, Osteoporosis, Multiple Sclerosis, Diabetes, Cardiovascular Disease and more.

Sazbo

Ted_Hutchinson wrote:

Everyone living in the UK would benefit from raising vitamin d status during the Winter months. No one (nightworker or not) can make vitamin d from sunlight between the end of October and March so we all to some extent have lower than ideal levels of vitamin d3 cholcecalciferol.

The reason I keep stating Vitamin D3 Cholecalciferol is because Vitamin d may also be sold as Vitamin d2 ergocalciferol and this is less effective. See The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin ...

The cheapest source of high strength Vitamin d3 is BIO-TECH Pharmacal Inc.
For most people their 5000iu capsules will be fine.
Those people with a residual suntan from plenty of regular sunbathing in the summer will probably be fine with one of these 5000iu capsules twice a week 10,000iu in total /7 about 1500iu/d
Taking three @5000iu= 15,000iu= roughly 2000iu/d and an adequate amount for most reasonably vitamin d replete people.
For vulnerable people, the elderly, the obese , those with MS, most cancers, low immune status, depression or SAD, 4000iu/d or 6 capsules a week is absolutely safe(perhaps I should declare I take one 5000iu capsule every day but I fit into 3 of the above categories)
Anyone worried about Vitamin d toxicity should read this but the problems with vitamin d only arise when people have exceeded 10,000iu/d for many months. The amounts I've suggested are well below the toxicity level supported by the latest research findings. Bear in mind that MOST people will be able to stop taking supplements as soon as the weather warms up from March onwards.

For those people who are currently certain their status is bound to be low then the supplier linked to above supplies 100x50,000iu capsules for a modest amount. ONE of these capsules taken ONCE a week for eight weeks would restore low levels following that ONE X 50,000iu every FORTNIGHT, (50,000/14=approx 3.500iu/d.

The half life of vitamin d3 once in your body is about 3 weeks so it's perfectly sensible to take one VERY high strength capsule occasionally instead of taking smaller amounts every day.

The Antibiotic Vitamin

The Vitamin D council

Hi Ted

I must first give a big thank-you generally for your posts, which are always a goldmine of info... :T

Regarding BIO-TECH Pharmacal Inc., who supply the D3 capsules you talked about - I notice they are a US-based company, but they don't seem to list overseas shipping rates on their website. Would you happen to know how much they charge to ship to the UK?

And on a slightly off-topic matter, apologies OP, I'm having difficulty tracking down magnesium chloride. Can you point me in the right direction of any suppliers?

Many thanks,
Saz

Ted_Hutchinson

Sazbo wrote:

Regarding BIO-TECH Pharmacal Inc., who supply the D3 capsules you talked about - I notice they are a US-based company, but they don't seem to list overseas shipping rates on their website. Would you happen to know how much they charge to ship to the UK?

Shipping is $9.15.The D-3-50(100ct) (thats the 50,000iu x 100) is $30.00. You can either provide your info via email or fax to 479-443-5643.

I seem to remember that the 5000iu x 250 were about $15.70 + P&P$9.15 as I was a bit miffed that I was paying nearly as much for the postage as the capsules last time. But you'd better check the 5000iu price.

Sazbo wrote:

And on a slightly off-topic matter - I'm having difficulty tracking down magnesium sulphate. Can you point me in the right direction of any suppliers?

Many thanks,
Saz

I don't use Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate) for magnesium as I prefer Magnesium Chloride. I bought my Dead Sea Salts (magnesium chloride) from my local agricultural suppliers. CWG Don't know if they also do Epsom Salts by the sack
They charged £6.75 for a 25kg sack of Magnesium chloride. It's handy to have at hand this time of year as it will melt the snow/ice on the drive without damaging either the plants nearby or the drive, so is generally safer but about the same price as a sack of salt.
I've been putting a kg in the bath and soaking for 20 mins. Your skin will takeup the magnesium if you need it.
It may help you sleep sounder and also stop you grinding your teeth. Helps with stress/anxiety.

If you want to take it internally then you can weigh out 50g into a bottle and add 150ml water and shake it up till it's dissolved, then keep in fridge and add a teaspoon to your meals 4 times a day. This should give you about 600mg magnesium.

You should be able to buy magnesium sulphate from the garden centre. But you'll probably be paying relatively more for it. CWG charge £12 for 6kg so you can see why I went for the Chloride version for 25kg for £6.75.

Sazbo

Ted_Hutchinson wrote:

Shipping is $9.15.The D-3-50(100ct) (thats the 50,000iu x 100) is $30.00. You can either provide your info via email or fax to 479-443-5643.

I seem to remember that the 5000iu x 250 were about $15.70 + P&P$9.15 as I was a bit miffed that I was paying nearly as much for the postage as the capsules last time. But you'd better check the 5000iu price.

I don't use Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate) for magnesium as I prefer Magnesium Chloride. I bought my Dead Sea Salts (magnesium chloride) from my local agricultural suppliers. CWG Don't know if they also do Epsom Salts by the sack
They charged £6.75 for a 25kg sack of Magnesium chloride. It's handy to have at hand this time of year as it will melt the snow/ice on the drive without damaging either the plants nearby or the drive, so is generally safer but about the same price as a sack of salt.
I've been putting a kg in the bath and soaking for 20 mins. Your skin will takeup the magnesium if you need it.
It may help you sleep sounder and also stop you grinding your teeth. Helps with stress/anxiety.

If you want to take it internally then you can weigh out 50g into a bottle and add 150ml water and shake it up till it's dissolved, then keep in fridge and add a teaspoon to your meals 4 times a day. This should give you about 600mg magnesium.

You should be able to buy magnesium sulphate from the garden centre. But you'll probably be paying relatively more for it. CWG charge £12 for 6kg so you can see why I went for the Chloride version for 25kg for £6.75.

Thanks Ted, sorry I meant chloride, not sulphate, and edited my post accordingly, but only after you'd read it.

Presumeably if it's the same thing as Dead Sea Salts, I can buy it in smaller quantities (I live in a tiny flat!) from chemists, etc?

Ted_Hutchinson

Al_Mac wrote:

I've been taking multi vitamins, couldn't get and D on it's own. And Omega 3. Mrs Mac thinks my mood has been better this winter

I've also been taking Omega3, can't remember why But it was in the same article

The amount of vitamin d in most multivit/mineral is so small as to be totally insignificant. If you went outside in the summer your body would make 12-20,000 iu in about 20 mins. this is the kind of quantity it needs to build up reserves and to deal with it's day to day requirement of between 3&5 000iu.
It is likely therefore that your multi vits will have 5mg or 200iu
a tenth of the minimum amount I am suggesting for those who are sure their vit d status is high and roughly a twentieth of the amount needed daily to maintain someone with a low status.

In case you think I'm exaggerating the 50,000iu capsules that may be needed once a week for 8 weeks to raise someone with low status to high status are the equivalent of taking the amount of vitamin d in 250 of your multivit tablets.

It may be the same with your omega 3 but if you are simply taking a normal 1000mg omega 3 tablet this contains a third of a gram of omega 3. I take 3g daily equivalent to 10 of the normal omega 3 capsules.

A Netto's 18p tin of sardines contains over 2g omega3 about 7 capsules worth. By the way the omega 3 is for your heart and brain function. see here Equazen omega 3 benefits info

Ted_Hutchinson

Sazbo wrote:

Presumeably if it's the same thing as Dead Sea Salts, I can buy it in smaller quantities (I live in a tiny flat!) from chemists, etc?

Ive no idea if you can buy Magnesium Chloride in small bags. It would be best if you could persuade a friend with a car and a garage to buy a sack to melt the snow/ice on her drive and then scrounge a few kg from her.

The only Dead Sea salts (magnesium chloride) I can find in smaller quantities are rip off merchants selling at highly inflated prices.

Ted_Hutchinson

Al_Mac wrote:

Ted, it works for me, maybe a placebo affect, please don't tell me it doesn't

Well I won't tell you but I don't really want any of the other readers thinking that the amount of vitamin d in a standard multivit/min tablet is likely to benefit them significantly.

Of course every little helps and it could be that combined with your fortnights winter holiday in sunny Spain (that you forget to mention) it worked wonders but for those who didn't manage to get any Winter Sunshine they need to be taking effective amounts and that means quantities equivalent to or approaching the amount their bodies actually use daily (between 3000 and 5000iu a day) which is why HIGH STRENGTH cholecalciferol is cost effective and the amounts added to normal strength multivits are really doing nothing but mislead the naive that they are actually meeting their daily needs when in fact they are meeting only a 20th of that amount. (but nobody should consider taking 20 mutltvits as you would overdose on the other ingredients)

Ted_Hutchinson

Al_Mac wrote:

Perhaps the fact I'm doing at least 5 fruit and veg a day.

While fruit and veg will improve your health generally and provide some of the vitamins and minerals suggested by the calculator at Mental Health Foundation : Feeding Minds they do NOT contain Vitamin d. See the food sources listed at World's Healthiest Foods and you will see from the amounts listed in the best food sources that it is impossible to get an adequate intake from food sources alone.

Al_Mac wrote:

Perhaps stopping alcohol

Certainly stopping alcohol will improve mood and because alcohol is very similar to sugar it will cut down on empty calories. So definitely you can count cutting down on alcohol as a mood/health improver.

Al_Mac wrote:

I'm amazed it isn't pushed more.

The research I'm using is mainly from the last few years. It usually takes the Medical Profession some years to understand, confirm, accept and then react to the latest research, particularly when there is little or no money to be made out of it.
Take this example Scientists want folic acid in flour to protect babies
The US and Canada have been fortifying with folate since 1998 while we are still thinking about doing it.
Perhaps the news that USATODAY.com - Folate shows promise in preventing Alzheimer's may spur them on but make no mistake it takes 20yrs or so for Dr's to wake up to the most recent research. Some of them still haven't sussed out when they need to wash their hands which is one of the reasons why we have so much hospital acquired infection.

The point about sunshine is that it is free, so no one can make money out of it except those disease mongers who want to increase the incidence of most cancers and they do so by peddling sunscreen and telling people in the UK to put it on BEFORE they go outside (thus preventing any vit d synthesis) rather than insisting they get 20 minutes sun exposure before applying it.
(those people who haven't acquired a natural sunscreen will need to prevent sunburn) the highest strength vitamin d capsules cost 20p each but a Vit d replete person would need only one of these every other week during Nov-March so for 20 weeks 10 (50,000iu) capsules should be sufficient cost £2
whose going to make serious money supplying something so cheap?

Think of the loss of profit to the Pharmaceutical Industry if people woke up to the fact that most Winter illnesses could be reduced if they took sufficient vitamin d3 cholecalciferol. It's no wonder there is a backlash of people using too little of the wrong kind of Vitamin d2 to gain headlines saying Vitamin d has no effect on certain conditions. It's as unrealistic as giving a bankrupt some small change and toy money and expecting it to change their lives.