FSA advisers urge delay to mortgage reform and more 'flexible' lending

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I've always argued that people want to buy items cheaper.

That doesn't change for myself and my next house.

You are now calling me self interested. But you appear to miss the fact that my self interest costs me in MY pocket, through MY mortgage payments.

That's hardly self interest is it. I'm ultimately paying for it.

Bit different to taking a gamble and praying interest rates don't rise. Bit different to the glee at overpayments as base rates arew so low and hoping they don't rise.

Do you not realise those that state rates may stay low realise they could lose their jobs as the economy may be screwed?
I think you are failing to see what self interest is, if you can relate it to others and not you.

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Stop ignoring parts of the discussion

Sorry I nearly fell off the chair you have the balls to say that as there are about 7 points in this thread made by me directly to you and you have ingored them all.

Graham_Devon

Really2 wrote: »

Did I say everyone?????? er,r no I didn't ?

So you have an idea what you want to happen, who will suffer to make that happen?
That's not self interest, no!!

It's not self interest no.

As I will also "suffer". Through higher payments on my mortgage.

How is that self interest?

Maybe this is just another one we should agree to disagree on. Otherwise we could end up with you telling me the price of a house is not the price of the house etc.

Emy1501

Really2 wrote: »

So those sold p[rices are set by market factors not the ticket price. :beer:

My personal opinion is yes because I believe Liar loans, Lenders refusal to use proper affordability calculators etc to make sure people could afford what they wanted to borrow has helped with the mess we are in.

Lots of other people especially those who believe in high house prices dont though. Of couse the reality is in todays maket the price is determined by the seller. approvals are half what they were in normal times so there is a lot of demand out there to sell but for many not at the price they can get today. The question in the future is whether mentality changes about how much a property is worth and what happens when people who see property as a retirement investment reach retirement age and need to sell.

Really2

Graham, and like lower rates and paying off my mortgage means I will suffer with the added risk of losing my or my wifes job.
It also means my house price, wages etc are unlikely to keep up with inflation and expect my standard of living over time to decline.

In all of our personal interest outcomes in some way we will lose. That does not mean it is'nt a personal interest though.

Emy1501

ukcarper wrote: »

Male full time median £28k, female £22k, total £50k, 3x £150k,

Average house price £163k so affordable with a 10% deposit.

The days where lenders just lent based on 3-4x joint salary are gone now. Lenders want to know how many kids you have, how much you pay into a pension. What you monthly loan repayments, how much childcare you pay etc. Also how if the average figure worked out? as lender will not take into account yearly bonuses and half of regular overtime etc.

As I say therefore people are finding that 20%+ is being knocked off the figure lenders will lend.

For me therefore in economic goods times there is an argument that todays prices are just about affordable for the average but we are not in those times and also there does not seem a really good argument for prices taking off in real terms are some are suggesting regardless of whether IO, 30-40 year mortgages, 95% mortgages are allowed.

ukcarper

Emy1501 wrote: »

Ticket price is huge now in view of affordability calculators. The amount some can borow has reduced by anything between 20-30% and by up to 50% if you take into account liar loan.

Therefore there is now a ceiling as to how high prices can rise something we saw in 2004-2005 when the max any highstreet lender would offer was 3x joint.

I was responding to this post by you.

I would agree I can't see house prices taking off again but then again I can't see them crashing in nominal terms although they could well fall in real terms.

Graham_Devon

Really2 wrote: »

Graham, and like lower rates and paying off my mortgage means I will suffer with the added risk of losing my or my wifes job.
It also means my house price, wages etc are unlikely to keep up with inflation and expect my standard of living over time to decline.

In all of our personal interest outcomes in some way we will lose. That does not mean it is'nt a personal interest though.

I think you are confusing self interest with personal thoughts.

Self interest is where you profit from the situation.

I would not be profiting from raising interest rates. I would be paying more money out each month. Yes, it may see house prices decline, but that would also mean my house price declining.

You simply cannot say, considering all of the above, that I therefore have self interest in rates rising. I don't make any money from it. I lose out. I don't have enough savings for it to be beneficial to me when the mortgage is taken into account.

However on a PERSONAL level. I would prefer to see rates rise, and get this whole things sorted for once and for all. I would prefer to see rates rise sooner rather than later, as the longer we hold off, the larger the pain.

Now, if I had said "I want to see rates rise because it will mean I get more money each month through savings"....you could then say I have a self interest.

What many on this site are saying is they do not wish for rates to rise simply because it means they will pay more on their mortgages and things are great at the moment. Can you deny that? If not, stop trying to twist everything and imply I have a self interest (which is the same as vested interest in these terms) in interest rates rising. Because quite simply, I don't. I will lose out if they rise. Doesn't mean I cannot see the logic in them rising though and doesn't mean I can't see the overal benefit at the other end. I think your confusion comes because you cannot grasp that some would rather go through the pain and sort it.

Emy1501

ukcarper wrote: »

I was responding to this post by you.

I would agree I can't see house prices taking off again but then again I can't see them crashing in nominal terms although they could well fall in real terms.

As I said above your post does not take into account how lenders now work out how they will lend. It no longer simply based on offer 3-4x and therefore a fair few couples on an average would not be able to borrow what you are suggesting due to having children, unsecured debt, childcare etc.

Personally I do not see them crashing in nominal terms unless there comes a time where proping up the housing market though Mortgage Support scheme etc is not seen as sustainable or IR have to be raised quickly before a full economic recovery is made . Real time rises seem highly unlikely though in the near future unless you believe the argument that 2 couples are going to live in a 1 bed flat etc.

shortchanged_2

I think what you're referring to graham is the everyman for himself attitude and greed.