Real life MMD: Should we ask 'em for cash?

MothballsWallet

RainyDay2011 wrote: »

I know this doesn't answer your question but have you been back and checked with your water company? Most private sewers will soon be switching to public which means that come about October time there's a high chance that your water company will be responsible for the cost of repairing the sewer. (Search Private to Public sewer transfer or something similar. Or go look at Water UK and they should have some info on it) If your sewer is switching they might pay half of it or make some offer to save you just leaving it until the switch when they would then have to pay for all of it. You might not be willing to wait that long but just in case!!

This is true - it's called PDAS in the industry.

echohoteloscar

If it helps I manage an Environmental Health department. My suggestion would be to contact these (independent) people http://www.ukdrainageprotocol.com/ Dilemma over, they should be able to sort your problem.

Dragon_Mummy

My in-laws had a similar problem a couple of years ago. A neighbour had sewage coming up in their garden from the drains so the neightbours got together to discuss the problem and agreed to each pay a share to get the pipes fixed. As everybody uses the pipe they felt it was only fair. Most of these people have been living in the same street for over 30 years though so thats probably why it worked here.

jhdenton

Never posted on here before but this question is right up my street, having handled these scenarios in my job over the past few years.

The law is very clear on sewers (shared drains). If the sewer is private, i.e. not adopted by the water company, then the repair and maintenance duties are the equal responsibility of all properties that derive benefit from its service upstream of the point of damage.

I.e. the problem may never affect you, but if it serves your home it is still likely to be your responsibility.

The good news is that if the damage is accidental (and it sounds like it is in this case), then the overwhelming majority of buildings insurance providers (NOT home emergency cover providers such as Homeserve, HomeCare, The AA etc) will not only provide cover, less the excess, for your proportion of repair costs, often they will actually appoint a specialist claims handling company who contact all your neighbours and agree costs etc. You never need to do a thing!

If the process fails, for example if one house is uninsured or unoccupied, then your insurers will recommend you contact the Environmental Health department at your local council, who have the power to serve a notice (under section 59 of the Buildings Act) to get the repairs done and invoice each home owner for their proportion. Provided your insurers have accepted there is a valid claim, you simply pass this along for them to pay out.

With regards to the DEFRA sewer transfer process, the final details are still not in place (last time I checked the legislation still had to pass through Parliament) and so it's very unlikely you would gain any contribution from your water company unless they have been in some way negligent.

Hope this helps.

P.S. - I would definitely get a plumber to check that there isn't an issue with the toilet. There may well be damage to the sewer but it isn't necessarily related to the function of your toilet! In fact if you did a survey of any drain you would likely find some sort of damage - it usually never causes a problem!

Jaxone

Until private sewers transfer to the water authorities in October the responsibility for repair rests with the owners who use the defective section, i.e. all those upstream of it. If the defect was at just one point, such as a blockage or a localised collapse, then the cost is divided equally between the owners of all the properties who use that bit of pipe, i.e. those upstream of it. If there is more than one defective section there may be different numbers of upstream owners to share the cost of the work needed to each section. So if the whole sewer needed to be relaid, relined or descaled then the cost of fixing the top section would be shared between the top 2 owners, the next section down would be shared between the top 3 owners, and the next between 4 and so on. So the person at the downstream end pays a fraction of just one section, whereas the top 2 owners have to pay contributions to all sections and so would have the biggest total bill. This might at first seem unfair but it is based on the principle that each owner pays an equal share for each section of pipe that they use. It is simply unfortunate for the highest owners that they use more sections of pipe than their downstream neighbours and so have more sections of pipe to share with others. The resulting difference in costs to neighbours on the same pipe is one of many reasons driving the transfer of such pipes to the water authorities. As others above have said, if you can't get your neighbours or insurers to agree to the work then call your local authority's Environmental Health department who have statutory powers to enforce the work and apportion costs between everyone responsible.
Incidentally when private sewers (i.e. shared drainage pipes) transfer to the water authorities so too will 'lateral drains' which are pipes serving one property after they exit the property boundary. Currently you are responsible for your house drain up to where it joins with another pipe (when it stops being a drain and becomes a sewer). So if your drain runs across a neighbours garden or out to a sewer under the road you are responsible for it as far as there, which as many people have found can mean much expense and haggling with neighbours and authorities to be able to get such repairs done. After the transfer to the water authorities you will only be responsible for your drains inside your own boundary, which is what many incorrectly believe to be the current position. And if your neighbour's drain currently enters your land then the water authority will become responsible for it.

Ebenezer_Screwj

You are within your "rights" to ask the neighbours anything you please but don't hold your breath, it is not their problem - yet. I would be inclined to hold fire until October when the proposed changes take place and see if the water company will dip into its considerable profits and pay for the repairs.

nayan_2

jantoby wrote: »

Had similar problem some months ago. It was reported to Council (even though they're not Council properties) who sent people in to investigate. Upshot was under Environmental laws it HAD to be fixed - if the owners of all properties that emptied into the pipe - 6 properties in our case - didn't get it repaired, the Council would have the necessary work done, identify the owners and would split the cost and invoice each property separately. So that's what we did. That way (a) it was fixed and (b) no one individual had the hassle of getting payment from the other 5 owners.

I had a blocked private sewer. After much investigation, Thames Water’s takeover of the sewer was to far in time to risk, so I asked the council (Wycombe District Council) to help.

They were very good (yeah I know). They sent a team over and who established where the blockage was and give each household a report and a deadline to clear it ourselves or after the time set do the job for us and bill us individually. Just to add, it MUST be an environmentally issue to allow them to them to act.

We took the second option because private companies were very expensive and we found the councils own contactors are a little cheaper. The contactors are also monitored to make sure the work is done correctly.

After the work was done we were all (4 houses) billed £27 individually. WDC also gave us all a report on what was blocking the sewer, its exact location and the time it took to extract it.

The best thing about doing it this way is the council take the entire burden.

They investigate the issue, establish if it’s an environmentally issue, book the contactor, are on site when the job is being done (so you don’t have to worry about taking time off work etc), monitor the work is done correctly and in the time necessary, bill each house hold, collect the money from each household and lastly give you a report.

For any household that won’t or can’t pay a notice is placed the household’s Land Registry record until they chough up or the notice will show when the house is sold.

Not bad as service......I would suggest you take this option

For sewer takeovers check out defra's site - sorry cant place a link as new user. Just google defra

ripongrammargirl

This was in my local newspaper which has come direct from a solicitors:

Responsibility for drains and sewers- generally your drain for your house is your responsibility, and the main public sewer which probably all the houses on the street are connected up to, is the responsibility of the sewerage company. The difficulty comes when your drain joins on with someone elses pipe before it joins with the main public sewer. This is called a private sewer and can be the responsibility of the householders who use it. eg. if you have 7 houses all connecting to a private sewer that leads into a big public sewer in the middle of the road- the house that is nearest to the big public sewer will only have to chip in to contribute repairs to the bit of the sewer that it actually uses (the end bit). But the house at the far end will use the entire length of the sewer and will have to chip in for any repair at any point along its length. The key therefore is to work out exactly where the problem is. Work out which houses are supplying the sewage that is spilling and they are responsible for sharing the bill to put it right.
Further more if you buy a brand new house on an uncompleted site then the water company will not have adopted the pipes/sewers until the development is complete and meets their standards. So, if the builder goes bust the householders could well be responsible for any pipe/sewer problems. Always ensure your solicitor checks that the builder/developer has insurance to deal with this which means the householders do not end up with problems.
If you have a sewer problem then get legal advice before you start paying out.

I hope this article will help somebody!!:j

AnthonyKirke

I suggest a check on your title deeds to see if there is anything about shared services and their repair.

John_Pierpoint

This is slightly off topic:

My DD had her eye on a rural property and (surprise surprise) dad got the job of giving it a "survey".
Well there were lots of drawbacks to the 100 year old semi, to cancel out the value of a rural view and quiet location. So she did not get as far as the legalities before walking away.

The drains ran from the rear of the pair of semi's down hill, behind a row of later (1960's) built houses, all of which had plugged into it (or more probably the private drain had not been installed to serve the road until the "new" houses were built and the cost could be shared over a dozen homes).

The point is that several of these "new" houses appeared to have built rear extensions over the private drain.

When it comes to replacing a collapsed drain (pitch fibre?!?:() the cost of digging up someone's Kitchen diner is a huge order of magnitude greater than trenching their back lawn:eek:.

Who would pay for the costs of reinstating the rear extensions versus the much lower cost of re-turfing the back lawns?

John

PS - Everyone seemed to cheer when the HIP was cancelled last year BUT this sort of information was in integral part of the HIP.