New offer from mortgage lender

Ineedaname

Silvercar - would the OP also need the OR's permission to take the deal, as the OR owns the BI still?

On that basis, surely the OR would take the money as they still own the BI?

bigjl

Yes, the mortgage lender is aware of the BR, as it is one of the main reasons, I think, for not taking the house back in 2008, the house had equity then.

I never actually paid anything to the OR, as I was BR for council tax during a workplace dispute, which i won, but the after effetcs were mortgage arrears and the BR, I had settled off all my big debts with the secured loan and I only owned a couple of hundred on utility bills and a couple of hundred on credit cards.

Would have saved me a lot if I had gone BR earlier, lol.

I have not heard anything from the OR, other than to say they are happy for me to buy the BI, or for somebody else to buy the BI.

As far as I have been told the BI is a seperate issue to the mortgage companys charge on the house, the OR doesn't have first charge the mortgage company does, after they are settled in full then what is left is the BI and this is the only thing that the OR has a claim on, or at least this is how I understand it after going through the process, but it is always a good idea to get more input and opinions, hence this thread.

As far as I know the mortgage company can do what they want with the property, since they actually own it legally, if they could get me out using the courts they would do so but as I have fought at every stage they would appear to be offering a little incentive to encourage me to stop fighting, sadly fighting back every step of the way is unfortunately a characteristic of half Scottish/Irish people from what I can see, a sort of inbuilt stubborniess that most people I grew up with and other Scottish and Irish people I have known in London also seem to exibit to a certain extent.

Note, they are not buying the house from me, as they own it, the charge, or whatever the OR calls it, have is simply there to secure any "equity" after disposal, any shortfall would then become a debt in BR and written off.

Again, everything I have posted is what I have gleaned from paperwork and leaflets, but I could easily have misunderstood, so all opinoins welcome.

bigjl

One other thing to consider is that I can rent the house out for at leat £1250/£1500 a month depending on wether I wet down the Local Authority or private renting direction.

This would easily cover the mortgage and eventually allow me to keep the house, which at the end of the day is still an asset when the mortgage is paid off.

One of those situations where you are not sure which way to go really.

kepar

Though I reckon I will aim high and ask for £15k, in the hope they knock me down to £10k.

Surely if you receive any money it will belong to the OR.

bigjl

No, I am discharged, the property is not being bought from me, I am being offered a fee to allow repossession, effectively being offered an incentive to hand back the keys. And to stop getting their orders for possession stopped by going to court every time and putting my case forward to the Judge and the Judge siding with me.

This it is nothing to do with the OR or selling anything.

The mortgage company already own the house.

The only thing the OR has an interest in is the Beneficial Interest, or equity, and my house has none, it is firmly in negative equity, which is the only reason the OR didn't force a sale, the mortgage company didn't want to sell, the OR didn't have any reason to want to force a sale.

Lets not forget we are talking about mortgage arrears, my BR is sorted, I am discharged, the only thing remaining is the BI.

So if I sold the house and say, broke even, the OR would get the BI, which would be £0.

My situation may be very different due to the way property prices fluctuate in the South East, but my house was worth £305,000 before the properry crash and economic downturn, it is now worth, with the eind behind it, £210,000. Though the last two houses like mine to sell went for £175,000 but they were sold by the mortgage holder through local estate agents.

silvercar

Ineedaname wrote: »

Silvercar - would the OP also need the OR's permission to take the deal, as the OR owns the BI still?

On that basis, surely the OR would take the money as they still own the BI?

I'm no expert so this is my opinion only.

I would guess this is unchartered waters for the mortgage lender and for the OR. The idea of being offered money to allow a voluntary repossession when a property is in negative equity is one I've never seen mentioned on the mortgages board, or anywhere else. I doubt the lender has much previous experience and certainly not when there is a bankruptcy involved. I doubt the OR has seen it before either.

Your first question, would the OR's permission be needed?
I would think not, given that permission isn't needed for any other repossession. The OR hasn't the power to insist that you don't allow your property to be repossessed, so I doubt they have the power to stop a repossession.

Could the OR take the money?
If OP has been discharged and has no IPA/ BRO/ BRU then I don't think there is any requirement to inform the OR of any money, whether earned, inherited, lottery, windfall or bribe. If OP has an IPA then I think any change of circumstance has to be informed within 21 days.
It seems clear that OP is being given the money to allow the repossession, nobody is buying the BI.
But this is new and the OR could take a different view. I'm going to think about this some more.

silvercar

bigjl wrote: »

One other thing to consider is that I can rent the house out for at leat £1250/£1500 a month depending on wether I wet down the Local Authority or private renting direction.

This would easily cover the mortgage and eventually allow me to keep the house, which at the end of the day is still an asset when the mortgage is paid off.

One of those situations where you are not sure which way to go really.

This is a non-starter.

Firstly you contractually need consent from the lender to rent out the property and that is very unlikely to be forthcoming given your mortgage arrears and negative equity. Secondly, while the OR owns the BI, there are complications, you can be referred to another dept where they consider the asset as it is no longer your home; if the OR can take the rental income they will. Thirdly, you have to be able to afford the maintenance on the property and comply with all landlord tenant law including gas certificates and deposit protection and insurance - they all cost money.

silvercar

bigjl wrote: »

No, I am discharged, the property is not being bought from me, I am being offered a fee to allow repossession, effectively being offered an incentive to hand back the keys. And to stop getting their orders for possession stopped by going to court every time and putting my case forward to the Judge and the Judge siding with me.

This it is nothing to do with the OR or selling anything.

The mortgage company already own the house.No you do, they have a charge over it. This gives you the power to make decisions.

The only thing the OR has an interest in is the Beneficial Interest, or equity, and my house has none, it is firmly in negative equity, which is the only reason the OR didn't force a sale, the mortgage company didn't want to sell, the OR didn't have any reason to want to force a sale.

Lets not forget we are talking about mortgage arrears, my BR is sorted, I am discharged, the only thing remaining is the BI.

So if I sold the house and say, broke even, the OR would get the BI, which would be £0.

My situation may be very different due to the way property prices fluctuate in the South East, but my house was worth £305,000 before the properry crash and economic downturn, it is now worth, with the eind behind it, £210,000. Though the last two houses like mine to sell went for £175,000 but they were sold by the mortgage holder through local estate agents.

I agree with all except my comment in red.

Ineedaname

Many thanks for the clarifications Silvercar, this is indeed an interesting thread.

So, am I right in saying that because there's no equity in the property, even tho the OR has BI in the property, any money paid to the OP as a gesture of goodwill to get them to allow repossession has no relevance to equity or BI, it's purely a payment between the lender and the OP? Convoluted question so I hope it makes sense.

silvercar

Ineedaname wrote: »

Many thanks for the clarifications Silvercar, this is indeed an interesting thread.

So, am I right in saying that because there's no equity in the property, even tho the OR has BI in the property, any money paid to the OP as a gesture of goodwill to get them to allow repossession has no relevance to equity or BI, it's purely a payment between the lender and the OP? Convoluted question so I hope it makes sense.

That is what I'm not sure about. The first question is whether it has to be declared. Now clearly if OP is under an IPA/BRO/BRU it would have to be declared, otherwise given that OP is discharged is there an obligation to declare? On the face of it not, but given that it is a fee being paid to repossess and that the repossession rules out the opportunity for the OR to wait to see if there is equity, then accepting the fee (and going bankrupt) directly rules out an opportunity for the OR to claw back some money for creditors. So accepting the fee potentially disadvantages the OR, so should the OR have some say in it or is the OR entitled to claim on the fee.
On balance I would think not and I'm comparing it to a situation where the OP decides without the fee to go bankrupt and that deprives the OR of the same opportunity.