House ownership - Selling yourself into a lifetime of servitude

Jimmy_31

Cleaver wrote: »

That sound like a pretty awful life though, doesn't it?

Well all the ones on my estate who left school and decided to scrounge for a living are more than happy with this kind of life, why wouldnt they be as everything they get is free, free house and everything else inside it, cant be bad can it.

Cleaver

PasturesNew wrote: »

The way to avoid a lifetime of servitude is to rent a council house, have a couple of kids so you get a 3-bed one for life.... then just do the bare minimum of work (if any) until it's time to pick up your pension.

Cleaver wrote: »

That sound like a pretty awful life though, doesn't it?

PasturesNew wrote: »

Is it any different to renting for a lifetime in 1-bed pokey flats?

In my view it's completely different. The first option centres around you giving up your self-respect by avoiding work and having kids in order to have a house given to you. From a personal point of view this would be a completely depressing and empty way to live your life. Renting a 1-bed flat, if you're doing what you want to do in life, is fine.

Cleaver

debtistheft wrote: »

Whatever you believe about the after life, we are all in agreement that we dont have long on the earth. Why spend that short time ploughing your wealth into a brick cube that provides shelter.

Because you need somewhere to live whilst on this earth, any people need to work out the most cost-effective and suitable way to do that. For most people that's buying a house, and for a smaller number that's renting. Are you a bit dense?

Cleaver

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Well all the ones on my estate who left school and decided to scrounge for a living are more than happy with this kind of life, why wouldnt they be as everything they get is free, free house and everything else inside it, cant be bad can it.

In your opinion does having a free council house make you happy in life?

Pick pretty much any social study you like and you'll find that people who work and pay their own way in life are happier than people who don't work and don't pay their own way in life.

Look at how people around you behave and you work out what makes people happy. Most people enjoy achieving in life, whether that's through academic success, employment success, starting their own business, going travelling, social interaction etc. etc.

I'll concede that people who 'scrounge' may brag and boast about their position in life and might come across as happy. But I doubt many of them are, deep down.

I work and own a house. If you came up to me tomorrow and said, "would you like a free council house and live on benefits?" I'd obviously say no and I imagine most sane people would. The reason? It'd make me unhappy.

Jimmy_31

Cleaver wrote: »

In your opinion does having a free council house make you happy in life?

Pick pretty much any social study you like and you'll find that people who work and pay their own way in life are happier than people who don't work and don't pay their own way in life.

Look at how people around you behave and you work out what makes people happy. Most people enjoy achieving in life, whether that's through academic success, employment success, starting their own business, going travelling, social interaction etc. etc.

I'll concede that people who 'scrounge' may brag and boast about their position in life and might come across as happy. But I doubt many of them are, deep down.

I work and own a house. If you came up to me tomorrow and said, "would you like a free council house and live on benefits?" I'd obviously say no and I imagine most sane people would. The reason? It'd make me unhappy.

A free council house would not make me happy because i know that to get that free house i would have to give up working for a living and start playing the system which i could not do as i would hate myself for doing it.

Trust me though when i say there are plenty of people who are perfectly happy being a scrounger in the area i live in, they have everything a working person has but without actually ever doing a days work in their lives, if you choose to be a scrounger in this day and age then i cant see why most of them wouldnt be happy, it obviously doesnt bother the people i know that choosing the scrounging route costs you your pride and self respect, else they would be trying to get a job and better themselves but they are not.

Most of the lads who i went to school with who chose the scrounging route are very happy that they can sit at home all day playing call of duty whilst getting stoned and would be absolutely devastated if they had to get a job.

Cleaver

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

A free council house would not make me happy because i know that to get that free house i would have to give up working for a living and start playing the system which i could not do as i would hate myself for doing it.

Agreed, and same here. I think most people feel this way too.

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Trust me though when i say there are plenty of people who are perfectly happy being a scrounger in the area i live in, they have everything a working person has but without actually ever doing a days work in their lives,

I don't think they do though, and that's the point I was really trying to make. Yeah, they have a house, and maybe an Xbox, and possibly a big TV. But whilst these things give you a vague sense of weird materialistic sense of pleasure for a short while, they don't make you happy.

So the person you speak of doesn't have things that hard working, self-sufficient people have. They probably don't have pride, sense of achievement, ups, downs, challenges, the feeling you get from completing something meaningful, working as a team, success, acomplishing things etc. etc. These are the things that make you happy in life.

By the way I'm talking about pure scroungers here, not the majority of people who live in council houses who will, of course, be happy in the real sense of the word.

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Most of the lads who i went to school with who chose the scrounging route are very happy that they can sit at home all day playing call of duty whilst getting stoned and would be absolutely devastated if they had to get a job.

There will always be a minority of people who won't help themselves, but I think your friends from school would be happier if they got a job and stopped that lifestyle, they just don't realise it.

PasturesNew

Where I am right now, if I had £0 savings, I could rent a 1-bed flat privately and have the rent paid for me and council tax for me - then get £65 or so dole/week. That's worth £850/month. Locally, full-time median wages for women are £16k... having said that I've not seen any jobs advertised at that rate without years of experience/specialism involved, so it's unachievable for 'people like me', or 'regular people'.

£16k takehome is a takehome of £1080, but most jobs are actually paying minimum wage, which for a 40 hour week would be about £12,500, which is a takehome of £879.

So, that's renting a 1-bed flat, without a garden or anything nice about it.

Earning £12,500/year, living alone, over 25, there might be some WTC, but not a lot.... and that'd probably cover the cost of going to work.

So, for the same money, would you rather get up every morning, miss all the good weather, be kn4ckered all the time ... or .... not work and go on free courses to learn new stuff and spend your days dabbling with hobbies while being able to enjoy the sun when it appears?

For those who live in areas with opportunities, or for those in couples, or for those in cities, things might be different... but not everywhere.

ukcarper

According to entitledto benefits checker with earnings of £12.5k and rent of £400 a month working tax credit is £51.87p take home pay is £900.

PasturesNew

ukcarper wrote: »

According to entitledto benefits checker with earnings of £12.5k and rent of £400 a month working tax credit is £51.87p take home pay is £900.

That site's too complex for me most of the time....

I used a different site to normal earlier, it gave me a different figure, but now I just checked on my usual one http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/ I see it is £905.

I never bother with WTC, too hard to work out when you're self-employed .... and my savings bugg4h up something like entitledto (they figure I get £800/week interest... pffft!!).

ukcarper

PasturesNew wrote: »

That site's too complex for me most of the time....

I used a different site to normal earlier, it gave me a different figure, but now I just checked on my usual one http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/ I see it is £905.

I never bother with WTC, too hard to work out when you're self-employed .... and my savings bugg4h up something like entitledto (they figure I get £800/week interest... pffft!!).

Your still only working for £67 a week so it’s not surprising some people don’t bother talk about high tax rates you are only getting just over 25% of what you earn . But then if you don’t start working you have no chance of improving things. As for WTC I think it can be a bit complicated as to what is regarded as income.