Parcelforce 'Clearance fee'

custardy

speed098 wrote: »

Obviously you both don't care or understand try reading other forums and what is said by people a lot more knowledgable.well I'll stick to dubious sources such as the PSA 2011

From other forums it now seems that if you dispute the clearance fee it may or may not be waived but it will at least be defered and maybe invoiced at a later date, if not waived in full. see below

Holding mail in liew of a payment of clearance fees is in breach of law sadly you are somewhat out of date. go find the postal services act 2011 (you are referring to PSA 2000) and see the addendum "(4A) A postal operator may detain a postal packet to which this section applies until any duties and charges in respect of the packet that are recoverable by virtue of subsection (3) have been paid.")as long as duty and Vat etc have been paid RM/PF if they wish these clearance fees either have to invoice you AFTER delivery or as it is not a criminal matter take civil action against you if you do not pay, which would be awkward as you have documentation from them of demanding this money or they will not deliver goods you own legal right to. good luck with that out of date documentation

If RM/PF went back to a system were they sent you a letter asking for payment which could also be done at time of delivery then I have less issues but to demand it prior to delivery is not legal. well again,you're wrong.

Some forums are actually now questioning the payment of the duty/VAT on your behalf as after all you have not entered nor has the original carrier or sender entered any written contract for this to be paid on your behalf and although I would never want to see these charges waved on a legal point of law maybe this is what needs to be done for more transparency. well some forums should do their own clearance

If RM/PF demand this money ask for a seperate invoice after all if the charge and the way they are charging it is legal they will have no problem at all in doing so and clearly stating on the invoice "paid as demanded under ****** act of law proir to release of goods".

all this typing and yet you want someone to do your clearance for you.
have you worked out what VAT is yet?

lovinituk

speed098 wrote: »

If RM/PF went back to a system were they sent you a letter asking for payment which could also be done at time of delivery then I have less issues but to demand it prior to delivery is not legal.

Sorry, but you are wrong - it is perfectly legal. Section 105(4A) of the Postal Services Act came into effect on 1st Oct 2011 and states...

“(4A)A postal operator may detain a postal packet to which this section applies until any duties and charges in respect of the packet that are recoverable by virtue of subsection (3) have been paid.”

Source - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/5/schedule/12/part/1

*edit* Just noticed custardy already posted this above! That'll learn me for posting before reading!!

tandymalbot

UPDATE 20th APRIL 2012

I will be yet again taking Royal Mail to court (I have won at least twice in the past). They kept my package for 8 days before even generating a customs invoice. I have previously asked them to opt-out me of their scheme and have parcels marked "goods to be Customs cleared by the importer". Some USA websites I used have even said they will offer this marking option for their other customers so ask them (I have found they want to sell more, so will do everything they can to help you).
I asked them a pre-litigation Civil Procedure Rules request for further information to which they gave the stupidest and most incriminating reply (however only answered 1 of my 7 questions).

They refused to state:
(1) Whether the £8 or £13.50 fee represented their actual costs, as only allowed under International Postal regulations.
(2) Why they delayed my package 8+ days before even generating a customs invoice (this is, in my view, still illegal).
(3) If the £13.50 packages are given priority, to explain if the additional costs for this would therefore only further delay the £8 packages (which is, again, illegal!)

(4) Why they won't let me clear all goods myself (I am possibly prepared to pay them a small nominal charge for them to check my address before they proceed to enter the information onto the CHIEF customs system).

(5) Why they charged me VAT on a parcel from within the EU (Germany). They stated I would have to ask customs. But this is daft because they enter the information for you to customs and prepay for you. So in my experience whether a gift within allowance or from within EU, they will always attempt to collect a VAT and/or duty charge even if not applicable. Similarly if you request to clear all packages yourself and/or arrange the sender to mark them accordingly.
(6) I asked them for a break down of all the £8s they had charged me in the last 6 years. They told me these reports are destroyed daily by the sorting office. Whilst you can understand why they do this "shredding", particularly in the past, it's almost certainly both illegal and almost certainly untrue (they allocate an additional reference to the tracking number, generate an invoice, take payment by card online etc).
(7) I again asked why they continue to pass items to Parcel Force, which is a private courier, that is not covered by the international posting reciprocal agreements. This is a famous trick they used even before the PSA act was lobbied, itself a near admission they were previously were acting illegally.

It is not up to us to plug their pensions defecit by this charge. This is not part of the 'actual costs', it is a fixed cost and these are variable costs.
I encourage you to keep taking them to the small claims court but do ask the above questions first as they will have to explain their failure to answer. They will put in a now standard defence but they won't see it through.

custardy

tandymalbot wrote: »

UPDATE 20th APRIL 2012

I will be yet again taking Royal Mail to court (I have won at least twice in the past). They kept my package for 8 days before even generating a customs invoice. I have previously asked them to opt-out me of their scheme and have parcels marked "goods to be Customs cleared by the importer". Some USA websites I used have even said they will offer this marking option for their other customers so ask them (I have found they want to sell more, so will do everything they can to help you).
I asked them a pre-litigation Civil Procedure Rules request for further information to which they gave the stupidest and most incriminating reply (however only answered 1 of my 7 questions).

They refused to state:
(1) Whether the £8 or £13.50 fee represented their actual costs, as only allowed under International Postal regulations. already been covered under a FOI request.
(2) Why they delayed my package 8+ days before even generating a customs invoice (this is, in my view, still illegal).
(3) If the £13.50 packages are given priority, to explain if the additional costs for this would therefore only further delay the £8 packages (which is, again, illegal!)

(4) Why they won't let me clear all goods myself (I am possibly prepared to pay them a small nominal charge for them to check my address before they proceed to enter the information onto the CHIEF customs system). they do. its free. however it involves you doing more than whining on a forum

(5) Why they charged me VAT on a parcel from within the EU (Germany). They stated I would have to ask customs. But this is daft because they enter the information for you to customs and prepay for you. So in my experience whether a gift within allowance or from within EU, they will always attempt to collect a VAT and/or duty charge even if not applicable. Similarly if you request to clear all packages yourself and/or arrange the sender to mark them accordingly.
(6) I asked them for a break down of all the £8s they had charged me in the last 6 years. They told me these reports are destroyed daily by the sorting office. Whilst you can understand why they do this "shredding", particularly in the past, it's almost certainly both illegal and almost certainly untrue (they allocate an additional reference to the tracking number, generate an invoice, take payment by card online etc). again,already covered under FOI
(7) I again asked why they continue to pass items to Parcel Force, which is a private courier, that is not covered by the international posting reciprocal agreements. This is a famous trick they used even before the PSA act was lobbied, itself a near admission they were previously were acting illegally.

It is not up to us to plug their pensions defecit by this charge. This is not part of the 'actual costs', it is a fixed cost and these are variable costs.
I encourage you to keep taking them to the small claims court but do ask the above questions first as they will have to explain their failure to answer. They will put in a now standard defence but they won't see it through.

a lot of points.all sorted by doing your own clearence

tandymalbot

But they won't let me do my own clearance. The same way they apply the charge to gifts under £40 or coming from EU countries, they will slap the £8 charge on as many packages as they can, legitimate or not.

Point 5 was a request for charge applied to me not everyone in general, learn to read more carefully. They have now resorted to ENRON style shredding of all evidence.

I'm not sure why you didn't address point 3, it blows your whole previous arguments out of the water.

It'a shame there was no RM windfall for staff. :rotfl:

custardy wrote: »

a lot of points.all sorted by doing your own clearence

custardy

tandymalbot wrote: »

But they won't let me do my own clearance. The same way they apply the charge to gifts under £40 or coming from EU countries, they will slap the £8 charge on as many packages as they can, legitimate or not.

Point 5 was a request for charge applied to me not everyone in general, learn to read more carefully. They have now resorted to ENRON style shredding of all evidence.

I'm not sure why you didn't address point 3, it blows your whole previous arguments out of the water.

It'a shame there was no RM windfall for staff. :rotfl:

aye,right you are then............

SunnyBrighton_2

Parcelforce, in my opinion, and in my experience based on previous packages received from the US, and the current one (awaiting me to pay extortionate charges which are plainly erroneous), are practising condoned extortion.
This package contains 2 dvds and several paper booklets / documents - value stated by sender $50 (approx £35). Charge by Parcelforce £35.24 (inclusive of their £8 fee) - anyone else see what's wrong with this? ParcelForce don't.
On notification of the charge, and realising ParcelForce calculations were completely wrong, I sent off form BOR286 as directed on HMRC website, heard nothing, called and was told, despite what it says on their website, this form will not be actioned for recalculation of fees. I have to pay up, then reclaim the overpayment. Guess they have to keep people busy with unnecessary work.
HMRC say they can do nothing until I receive the package (i.e. pay the extortion demands) and send them a form with various proofs (again) and they will consider the refund, and it will take up to a month, or longer (their words).
ParcelForce say pay up or else package will be returned to US.
Ofcom say yes, they have lots of complaints on their books about this 'fee', and when I check online I find that people have been complaining about it since 2001. Nothing has been done, and nothing will be done. I registered a complaint with Ofcom, but they just about admitted they would do nothing about it.

Rip off Britain deserves its name.

custardy

SunnyBrighton wrote: »

Parcelforce, in my opinion, and in my experience based on previous packages received from the US, and the current one (awaiting me to pay extortionate charges which are plainly erroneous), are practising condoned extortion.
This package contains 2 dvds and several paper booklets / documents - value stated by sender $50 (approx £35). Charge by Parcelforce £35.24 (inclusive of their £8 fee) - anyone else see what's wrong with this? ParcelForce don't.
On notification of the charge, and realising ParcelForce calculations were completely wrong, I sent off form BOR286 as directed on HMRC website, heard nothing, called and was told, despite what it says on their website, this form will not be actioned for recalculation of fees. I have to pay up, then reclaim the overpayment. Guess they have to keep people busy with unnecessary work.
HMRC say they can do nothing until I receive the package (i.e. pay the extortion demands) and send them a form with various proofs (again) and they will consider the refund, and it will take up to a month, or longer (their words).
ParcelForce say pay up or else package will be returned to US.
Ofcom say yes, they have lots of complaints on their books about this 'fee', and when I check online I find that people have been complaining about it since 2001. Nothing has been done, and nothing will be done. I registered a complaint with Ofcom, but they just about admitted they would do nothing about it.

Rip off Britain deserves its name.

well if you keep getting charged and don't like it.
why are you continuing to let 3rd parties do your cleareance?

SunnyBrighton_2

Point one: I don't keep getting charged - I never pay the fee, I've always paid the customs charges and left it off, which has worked to date.
Point two: I didn't know that there would be a charge on this package as it was part of a course, and I was unaware that anything would be sent until too late.
Point three: I wasn't aware that Parcelforce were going to be the delivery company - other professional companies don't put a fee on top - at least not that I've ever experienced.
Point four: I was having a little moan, pointing out that Ofcom is pathetic where this is concerned, in case anyone else had thought they might help.
Point five: I will be implementing the advice earlier in this thread about self-clearance, so it shouldn't happen again.
Point six: I thought it might be useful to share all the processes I went through, and save someone else having to go through it all themselves.
Point seven: I actually had been hoping for a slightly more helpful response, but hey, such are the times in which we live.

custardy

SunnyBrighton wrote: »

Point one: I don't keep getting charged - I never pay the fee, I've always paid the customs charges and left it off, which has worked to date. so you have been charged before?
Point two: I didn't know that there would be a charge on this package as it was part of a course, and I was unaware that anything would be sent until too late.
Point three: I wasn't aware that Parcelforce were going to be the delivery company - other professional companies don't put a fee on top - at least not that I've ever experienced. they all do
Point four: I was having a little moan, pointing out that Ofcom is pathetic where this is concerned, in case anyone else had thought they might help. well who is covering the costs of clearence?
Point five: I will be implementing the advice earlier in this thread about self-clearance, so it shouldn't happen again.
Point six: I thought it might be useful to share all the processes I went through, and save someone else having to go through it all themselves. been posted over and over
Point seven: I actually had been hoping for a slightly more helpful response, but hey, such are the times in which we live.

I deal in facts.