Parcelforce 'Clearance fee'

custardy

esuhl wrote: »

But it's also illegal for ParcelForce to hold your package as a lien. And if ParcelForce have paid the VAT and duty for you... you can hardly be prosecuted for evading duty/tax. If anything, ParcelForce will have a claim against you to settle your debt, and you would have a claim against ParcelForce for their criminal actions in holding your package illegally.

That's my understanding of it, anyway.
yet you will see the regulator for PF is happy with the set up
it is they who controls RM groups actions. lobby your MP if you want the situation changed and ask them why the goverment doesnt allow direct payment. seems folks want it both ways.not having to deal with HMRC but expect companies to deal with HMRC on their behalf.



The comparison isn't quite that simple - in reality one would have a postage charge of $30, while the other would be $20 to $40 depending on whether the package was stopped by customs. The rational way to act would be to consider the probability of the additional fee being incurred. If the odds are less than 50%, then it would make sense to opt for the $20 postage; if over 50% then the $30 postage would be better value.

But, I don't like gambling - I wouldn't buy fruit from the supermarket if I was told that any fruit that had been inspected by customs would attract an additional fee, and I may receive a letter in a few weeks demanding extra payment! I'd want to know there and then what the price was!

The same could be said of tax and duty itself, but since you can calculate in advance how much you are liable for, you can factor that in to the price. If your package isn't stopped, you've got a bargain!

so what do you want? surely you would prefer a system where all packages are stopped,inspected and letters sent out from HMRC with the duty due?



By direct payment, you mean that I should be able to pay HMRC themselves rather than ParcelForce? I don't think it's "outrageous", but I do think it would result in a fairer (maybe even legal) system.

As I understand it, ParcelForce have no right to hold on to your parcel to ensure they are re-imbursed for customs fees, so it seems crazy that they should just pay the fees and hope you pay them back. Obviously ParcelForce think it's pretty crazy too and so act with criminal intent by holding packages illegally.

if you refuse to pay the VAT then PF an return the package to HMRC and be reimbursed for their payment.

shaun_from_Africa

But it's also illegal for ParcelForce to hold your package as a lien. And if ParcelForce have paid the VAT and duty for you... you can hardly be prosecuted for evading duty/tax. If anything, ParcelForce will have a claim against you to settle your debt, and you would have a claim against ParcelForce for their criminal actions in holding your package illegally.

Is it just your opinion that Parcelforce are acting illegally or can you provide a link to the relevant legislation to back this up?
Even the link that you posted earlier doesn't state that what they are doing is illegal, simply that there is some doubt about it. (and as the page that the link refers to was first posted over 2 years ago, why hasn't there been a single verifiable court case where Parcelforce have been found to be acting illegally?)

"there appears to be some uncertainty that a postal operator may be acting illegally if it retains an item in order to claim its clearance fee

esuhl

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

Is it just your opinion that Parcelforce are acting illegally or can you provide a link to the relevant legislation to back this up?

I'm certainly no legal expert, so it is really just my opinion, but the Postal Services Act 2000, section 104 refers to the "inviolability of mails" and effectively says that posted packages "shall have the same immunity from -- (a) examination, seizure or detention under a relevant power... (d) retention by virtue of a lien, as if it were the property of the Crown."

It then says that "relevant powers" does not include "a power conferred... relating to customs and excise in it's application." (but that's irrelevant because the "relevant powers" bit only relates to examination, seizure, etc., not retention as a lien).

Oh, hang on... I've just read section 106 again, and it seems that a package is considered "contraband" if duty has not been paid or secured on it, and that contraband packages can be detained. Okay, so maybe I got the wrong end of the stick - I'll admit it (unless anyone else can persuade me otherwise)! Probably wasn't such a good idea to skim read only part of the Act after a few ales :-)

bristoldad

|At the end of the day everything is down to contracts either implied or consensual, where is there any evidence of an agreed contract between Parcel Force and the person who ordered the goods? If Parcel Force pay the VAT they are taking a gamble that you will not question there fees and just pay like a good little citizens, I think the only reason for there involvement in this scam is that big profits are to be made for basically doing FA.

AnonymousForObviousReason

I ordered two watches from Japan, the total was 13,150 yen (£100.145158 British pounds according to Google conversion). I understand I had to pay VAT and calculated it, but the parcelforce £13.50 ticked me off. I have [STRIKE]two[/STRIKE] one issue[STRIKE]s[/STRIKE]:

[STRIKE]1. the total VAT that I was charges is £21.20 (They using the new 20% VAT rate rather than the current 17.5%, or what currency conversion do they use?) [/STRIKE] was postage
2. Although I wasn't to get my delivery until I paid the fees (which I've not done), it was delivered today - with big stickers saying won't be delivered until payment made.

As I understand it Parcelforce pay the VAT for me and feel I should pay this part (rather than think, out of interest is it a legal requirement?). The handling fees seem a little more 'negotiable' to me.

bristoldad

Its simple people just have to stop paying and demand there goods.

AnonymousForObviousReason

Found out what the difference in VAT is. Noticed that the company put 1800 yen down as postage costs on package, didn't look for this as was not charged delivery by company. The total comes out about 45p shy of the stated value which could easily be down to currency changes.

shaun_from_Africa

|At the end of the day everything is down to contracts either implied or consensual, where is there any evidence of an agreed contract between Parcel Force and the person who ordered the goods?

The contract is between Parcelforce and the person who sent the goods and not the person who ordered the goods, and the contract for this clearly states the responsibility for customs charges and the Parcelforce fee.
The recipient has 4 choices:

1/ Ask the sender to use a postal method that will not involve parcelforce delivering the goods.

2/ Refuse to pay the charges and attempt to reclaim the money for the goods from the sender.

3/ Refuse to pay the charges and either insist that parcelforce deliver your goods without charging you and if they refuse, take legal action if you are so sure that what they are doing is illegal.

4/ Pay the charges and get your goods.

custardy

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

The contract is between Parcelforce and the person who sent the goods and not the person who ordered the goods, and the contract for this clearly states the responsibility for customs charges and the Parcelforce fee.
The recipient has 4 choices:

1/ Ask the sender to use a postal method that will not involve parcelforce delivering the goods.

2/ Refuse to pay the charges and attempt to reclaim the money for the goods from the sender.

3/ Refuse to pay the charges and either insist that parcelforce deliver your goods without charging you and if they refuse, take legal action if you are so sure that what they are doing is illegal.

4/ Pay the charges and get your goods.

5/ http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=38827772&postcount=301

shaun_from_Africa

The recipient has 4 choices:

Make that 6 choices.

No 5 added above and
6/ Buy from a seller in the EU so there will be no import charges.

I can't say the self declaration option sounds too appealing to me.

Goods arrive in country and get held by Royal mail. You then have to fill in one of these:
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000387

and post it to HMCE who will work out your tax liability and send you the bill.
Once you've paid this and the payment has cleared, they inform RM who will release the goods.

All in all, I wouldn't be surprised to find that this all take a couple of weeks and possibly longer if there are any postal delays, and all for the sake of £8.