Parcelforce 'Clearance fee'

custardy

strawberries1 wrote: »

Awesome! I called HMRC and the lovely lady said it happens all the time and I'll get a refund but the slips are on the package which PF is holding on to. I called PF HQ and spoke to the MDs' team and he said they have to cover costs of handling the package with customs and I said I was never told that. The VAT is a statutory charge and I'll pay for it and get my refund when I get the slips but the online payment pages asks for the sum of both charges; it is illegal to hold my parcel to make me pay a fee I knew nothing about and I cld ve paid the VAT directly myself.
He then changed his tune and I've paid the vat now and sld ve the package 2mrw.
Thanks!

you cant pay the VAT directly
thats the whole point

5couse

I am being charged ( or have been ) what amounts to 50% of the cost of the item to have it left at the sorting centre for me to pick up.
I ordered an rc plane as a birthday present for my 13 year old , I paid for EMS shipping and the item was delivered into the country after 3 days all good so far , the item entered customs 2 hours later and has been there for the last 9 days awaiting charges , no problems i was expecting the charges not the wait , 22 emails later and i get a bill for £28.26 half the cost of the plane ( his birthday btw has now been and gone 2 days ago ) , now , i expect customs charges and duty , absolutely no problem with that what i do have a problem with is paying parcelforce for them to do their job , the postage was paid at the point of purchase so apart from duty that should be it , right ? since when is duty 50% of the item cost ? or is that mixed in with parcelforces charge to deliver a package ive already paid postage on just not to parcelforce ???

custardy

5couse wrote: »

I am being charged ( or have been ) what amounts to 50% of the cost of the item to have it left at the sorting centre for me to pick up.
I ordered an rc plane as a birthday present for my 13 year old , I paid for EMS shipping and the item was delivered into the country after 3 days all good so far , the item entered customs 2 hours later and has been there for the last 9 days awaiting charges , no problems i was expecting the charges not the wait , 22 emails later and i get a bill for £28.26 half the cost of the plane ( his birthday btw has now been and gone 2 days ago ) , now , i expect customs charges and duty , absolutely no problem with that what i do have a problem with is paying parcelforce for them to do their job , the postage was paid at the point of purchase so apart from duty that should be it , right ? since when is duty 50% of the item cost ? or is that mixed in with parcelforces charge to deliver a package ive already paid postage on just not to parcelforce ???

why do you feel your customs paperwork should be done for free?
there are courier services available where all fee's are paid upfront
why didnt you use on of those?
or arrange your own customs clearance?
PF/RM charge set fees which you can find on their websites

5couse

Why should parcelforce be paid twice ? colour it what you will , parcelforce are charging to make sure they get their cut. Customs paperwork should be handled by customs and i have no problem paying them for their work. I have already voiced my concerns via email to parcel force so we will see what happens from now. Like i have said , i have no problems paying customs and duty.

custardy

5couse wrote: »

Why should parcelforce be paid twice ? colour it what you will , parcelforce are charging to make sure they get their cut. Customs paperwork should be handled by customs and i have no problem paying them for their work. I have already voiced my concerns via email to parcel force so we will see what happens from now. Like i have said , i have no problems paying customs and duty.

how does the customs papers get handled by customs?
in that case customs will be billing you direct for their monies,no?

5couse

that made no sense to me

custardy

5couse wrote: »

that made no sense to me

well you are saying you are happy to pay the customs fee and that customs should deal with the paperwork
so how dies that work?
how does the package get to customs,how is the documentation checked,values worked out etc?
how is customs paid?
how does the item go back to PF (or whomever) to go to delivery?

5couse

Im not going to argue with an EX postie , what i will do is post everything i receive and everything i send to do with this up until i resolve this matter.

but you might want to read this

"IN DETERMINING THE EFFECTS OF THE DUTY ON THE FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS , IS IT OF ANY IMPORTANCE THAT A DUTY OF THE TYPE AT ISSUE IS PROPORTIONATE TO THE COSTS OF A COMPULSORY PUBLIC HEALTH INSPECTION CARRIED OUT ON ENTRY OF THE GOODS . THE ACTIVITY OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE STATE INTENDED TO MAINTAIN A PUBLIC HEALTH INSPECTION SYSTEM IMPOSED IN THE GENERAL INTEREST CANNOT BE REGARDED AS A SERVICE RENDERED TO THE IMPORTER SUCH AS TO JUSTIFY THE IMPOSITION OF A PECUNIARY CHARGE . IF , ACCORDINGLY , PUBLIC HEALTH INSPECTIONS ARE STILL JUSTIFIED AT THE END OF THE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD , THE COSTS WHICH THEY OCCASION MUST BY MET BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHICH , AS A WHOLE , BENEFITS FROM THE FREE MOVEMENT OF COMMUNITY GOODS

Which in laymen’s means that where the service isn't conferring any benefit to the importer, but is benefiting the state then those fees should be met by the general public as a whole, or in other words we shouldn't be paying the 'clearance fee,' HMRC should.

custardy

how condescending to dismiss my views because of my previous employment
So you now say that HMRC should 'pay' the clearance fee's?
would it not make more sense that HMRC offer a service where any fees due can be paid direct to them?
or do youfeel carriers should cover all costs involved for HMRC?
however be careful what you wish for. if you think HMRC would be a cheaper alternative then i bet you would be dissapointed

5couse

I wasnt being condescending at all , if thats how it came across then i apologise , i accept the fact that you probably know a lot more than i do in this matter i am simply reading through the legality of what is happening which is becoming very sketchy to say the least. Now whether this is true or not we shall find out. Like i said i have no problem paying the vat/import.

Whilst Parcel Force and their likes are not allowed to hold your parcel (fee or no fee), the fee itself is unlawful.

Parcel Force (in particular) are relying on powers set out in the Overseas Letter Post Scheme which itself is enacted in the Postal Services act 2000

The relevant section they rely on is at Part 3 section 15:
(3) With respect to the clearance through customs of an incoming postal packet or of such a mail bag as is mentioned in (b) below, the Post Office may charge a fee as follows:

(a) a fee of £8.00 on each such packet (not being a mail bag of printed matter as mentioned in (b) below) which is produced to the proper office of Customs and Excise
**As an aside here, it is interesting to note that their own legislation simply states £8.00 and no reference is made to £13.50, a complete unlegislated arbitrary number it seems**

Unfortunately for Parcel Force (and all those other companies), the UK is part of the European Union, and love it or hate it the EU does have some benefits. One of those is the fact that all member states are signed up to certain treaties which basically trump anything we can produce locally. One of those is the EC Treaty, which amongst other things signed the Member States up to the establishment of a common customs tariff covering Member States' relations with non-EU countries.

You're interested in Articles 28, 31 and 32; basically what this sets out is that all Member States must charge the same rates of duty when goods are imported into the EU.

Now the UK will most probably argue that the 'clearance fee' is a necessary public service and therefore justified, i.e. collection of taxes, however EU case law has covered this matter before (Bresciani v Amministrazione 87/75) although this considered 'fees' on internal market borders and not external market borders, the arguments are the same, i.e. 'fees' being imposed for a 'service' on goods crossing borders.



AS A NEW USER I AM NOT ALLOWED TO POST LINKS SO THEY HAVE BEEN REMOVED , I AM PRETTY SURE THEY ARE EASY ENOUGH TO FIND.