Cameron does a Gordon Brown...

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ninky wrote: »

so how do you explain the charges for the childrens play area in battersea park - a play area already paid for by taxation...or are wandworth council run by loony lefties masquerading as conservative?

Could you point me to the existing tax that is specifically named for a childrens play area? Or parks for that matter?

Because I can certainly point you to the one all drivers pay for road use. Funnily enough, it's even called "road tax". Last time I checked, parking a car is an essential part of using the roads. And if you don't pay road tax, it is illegal to park a car on the road, so clearly it's not just for driving.

it's hard to say what counts a paying for something twice - you could say introducing a charge at point of use merely frees up for revenue from taxation to go to other things rather than paying for it twice.

I think all specific taxes should be ring fenced.

Road taxes and petrol duty should pay only for road related issues.

Cigarette and alcohol taxes should only pay for the direct harm they cause to society, medical care, etc.

National insurance should only pay for pensions, healthcare, unemployment or sick benefits, etc.

And the expenditure on such services should be limited to the revenue raised through the specific tax, and the tax should be levied only at the minimum rate to raise the money required for the service.

We should be far more transparent about why a tax is necessary, what it is to be used for, and what the alternatives are. Perhaps even to the point of making more decisions around taxation and services by referendum, or as a more binding manifesto commitment in the election process.

ninky_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Could you point me to the existing tax that is specifically named for a childrens play area? Or parks for that matter?

Because I can certainly point you to the one all drivers pay for road use. Funnily enough, it's even called "road tax". Last time I checked, parking a car is an essential part of using the roads. And if you don't pay road tax, it is illegal to park a car on the road, so clearly it's not just for driving.



I think all specific taxes should be ring fenced.

Road taxes and petrol duty should pay only for road related issues.

Cigarette and alcohol taxes should only pay for the direct harm they cause to society, medical care, etc.

National insurance should only pay for pensions, healthcare, unemployment or sick benefits, etc.

And the expenditure on such services should be limited to the revenue raised through the specific tax, and the tax should be levied only at the minimum rate to raise the money required for the service.

We should be far more transparent about why a tax is necessary, what it is to be used for, and what the alternatives are. Perhaps even to the point of making more decisions around taxation and services by referendum, or as a more binding manifesto commitment in the election process.

with all the extra costs of this policy by election we'll be needing a new poll tax then.......

madness.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ninky wrote: »

with all the extra costs of this policy by election we'll be needing a new poll tax then.......

madness.

We have numerous elections in this country on a regular basis. Can't see it being very expensive to add a few more boxes to tick on the paper that's being printed and distributed anyway.

ninky_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

We have numerous elections in this country on a regular basis. Can't see it being very expensive to add a few more boxes to tick on the paper that's being printed and distributed anyway.

the physical act of adding a few more boxes is relatively straightforward. deciding on the wording of those boxes is less straightforward. it's kind of why we have mps to make the decisions on our behalf.

alternatively they could just run a poll on the daily mail website.

JuicyJesus

ninky wrote: »

alternatively they could just run a poll on the daily mail website.

Yes but then the results for "Should children's play areas be funded by taxation?" would be:

Yes
[==] (6%)
No
[===] (9%)
Deport all those Eastern Europeans and brown people and bring back hanging
[=================================] (85%)

It'd be unproductive at best.

Loughton_Monkey

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I think all specific taxes should be ring fenced.

Road taxes and petrol duty should pay only for road related issues.

Cigarette and alcohol taxes should only pay for the direct harm they cause to society, medical care, etc.

National insurance should only pay for pensions, healthcare, unemployment or sick benefits, etc......

This is called "Hypothecation". British Governments have avidly resisted the concept for years. Road Tax is not for roads. NI is not for welfare and pensions. Tax is tax. It goes into a big bucket and they spend from that bucket [unless you're Gordon Brown in which case you borrow a lot more to put into the bucket].

So if Road tax pays only for roads, alcohol taxes pay for medical care.... etc.... where do we get the money for defense. Shotgun Licenses? Or for the Police Force. Speeding Fines?

No. We already know where the money 'goes' as in "This Government has spent 'more' on Education than the last Government......." But this argument assumes that money allocated to Education, Health, Defense, Roads, Foreign Aid, Benefits, etc. is all 'efficiently' spent. And as we know, it is absolutely not efficiently spent.

The BBC has had 'guaranteed' income for years. Has it improved output? No it has paid the overstaffed bosses and minions mega bucks.

Has education improved? No. It has been spent assessing 22% of our children as 'special needs' and supplying so-called 'teaching assistants' to teach the ill-behaved how to say "I didn't done that homework cos step-dad gimme a job to do init?"

Here's how you can check. Count the number of people who physically do something 'useful'. Take you pick. But something like....

Investigate a crime and take the criminal to court.
Stand in front of a class and teach all day.
'Nurse' you in your hospital bed.
Perform an operation on you.
Physically empty your bin.
Sit face to face with you at the benefits office....

Now count the proportion of people 'behind' these. The bosses, the middle management, the bureaucrats, the administrators......

Where (in business) you should get a figure of about 0.6, you will find something nearer 2 to 3 times the number of people who specifically 'add value' - and even the value adders don't work very efficiently because of paperwork, targets, bureaucracy etc....