In 18 months I've gone from solvent to almost broke - need major HELP!

Storm

downhillfast wrote:

the pub is one of 3 in a small village and has had a stigma attatched to it for a while I now know!

I think it can be especially difficult with village pubs because people have 'their' pub and won't necessarily go anywhere else.

What's the stigma with the pub? Is is local rivalry or what the pub used to be like the problem?

pusscat

Hello

I don't normally post on threads about individual debt as I have not been there myself and do not feel as though I can offer much, however, my background (prior to a career change) was in hospitality and project management so maybe I have somethng to offer on that score.

This is quite a long post and contains quite a lot of questions/information, so if you are not up to dealing wth it yet then just go with what you can for now - ok (hugs!)

Sometimes it helps to get is all spilled out, then you can start to look at it as a problme to be solved, rather than a millstone that is drowning you.

Some of the questions may seem either blindingly obvious or really complex, depends on what level of understanding you have of the business, and of the industry. Sorry if they are the wrong level, but if you give me some more info I may be able to pitch them better, as it is I have gone in at several levels....

If you are putting your business up for sale then you need to have full up to date accounts. Do you?

are your personal finances and your business finances seperate? Are you trading as a limited company, sole trader or as an employee of the brewery? Are you a tennant, owner, manager?

Do you have any experience in the pub trade, or did it just seem like a nice career to go into? No offence meant, but it helps to know how to pitch other information. Do you have any brewery backup? Training? etc . Do you live in? How many staff do you have, how are they paid - brewery or direct by you/your business?

are your books are in a bit of a pickle or do you know exactly where both you and the business stand financially?

if your (assume quarterly) VAT bill is £3.5k then my guess is that you are turning over in the region of £70-100k pa? Is this the right kind of figure? Whatever you do, make sure your VAT is paid, this is a priority as the VAT man does not do "late payments"

What percentage of wet/dry turnover do you have? What is your GP% on each? Do you know? Do you know what this is?

Where are you in relation to your business plans? Sounds like they were quite detailed, what failed to happen or where were the extra costs?

To get a really good idea of how to start solving your business issues we need to get a clear idea of what you are selling, who to, how much it is costing, how much of it you are selling, what your wastage is, how much are your fixed costs etc.

on a turnover of £80k (ex VAT) I would estimate (without much info this is very vague, using general figres!) that you should be able to pay yourself a salary of approx £20k per annum, plus have all of your living costs taken care of - this is not happening so we need to find out where all of the money is going.

The turnover does not sound too rock bottom, (assuming my guesswork is reasonable) so the money is being lost somewhere else - any ideas where?

Even if you want out, you still want the best price for our business, so come on, lets have a look at where your money is going. I promise it wont be that awful.

Puss

downhillfast

The pub is in Staffs. The stigma is just that it's at the cheaper end of the village... and has a definite group of people that downright refuse to drink there! It doesn't help that 1 of the other pubs has a very strong customer base now aswell.

Trying to increase sales here is like banging my head against a wall! I wouldn't have minded the struggle if I'd just had enough money to pay myself and get by.... as it stands it's costing me £1k a month to work my fingers to the bone here and get grief from a load of narrowminded biggots!

rog2

downhillfast wrote:

Thanks for your replies.

Both the bank and the brewery know that the business is struggling - have had overdraft facility refused months and months ago when the business was in better health than it is now - they don't seem to care.... infact they suggested getting a loan from somewhere (not them) to help with cashflow!

As for the brewery - they are a joke. Try to squeeze every penny out of me at any opportunity. They are fairly good regarding me having to pay the rent and beer bill in installments... but they are offering no help to help me sort things out.

IMO pub companies are just money grabbing cowboys!

You should talk with Mike St.Helens - he had the same problems and could give you some advice on how to deal with the brewery. :beer:

lynzpower

downhillfast wrote:

The pub is in Staffs. The stigma is just that it's at the cheaper end of the village... and has a definite group of people that downright refuse to drink there! It doesn't help that 1 of the other pubs has a very strong customer base now aswell.

Trying to increase sales here is like banging my head against a wall! I wouldn't have minded the struggle if I'd just had enough money to pay myself and get by.... as it stands it's costing me £1k a month to work my fingers to the bone here and get grief from a load of narrowminded biggots!

have you looked at the forums on thepublican.com

they are slow compared to here but theres some good advice on there in terms of breweries and what they do/ dont do etc

downhillfast

lynzpower wrote:

have you looked at the forums on thepublican.com

they are slow compared to here but theres some good advice on there in terms of breweries and what they do/ dont do etc

Yeah have looked on there in the past but as you say the response on there is slow. Will check it out again though

silverfoxdude

i have been in the pub trade for over 20 years had good pubs and bad pubs the village pub is quiet hard to turn around when there is three of them it seems like you will always struggle when your competing for the same customers. like you said if you have happy hour ect it wont help trade .you have to offer something diff .get your thinking cap on is the pub on its !!!! at the moment?is it worth taking a risk like turning it into a chineeze or and indian restraunt or italian ,do you think there is a local gap in the market for food? i would find a chef do a deal turn it into a food house then its less personal you can be creative without having to please moaning regulars on the plus side you can close when there is no demand for food and have some time for yourself

downhillfast

pusscat wrote:

Hello

I don't normally post on threads about individual debt as I have not been there myself and do not feel as though I can offer much, however, my background (prior to a career change) was in hospitality and project management so maybe I have somethng to offer on that score.

This is quite a long post and contains quite a lot of questions/information, so if you are not up to dealing wth it yet then just go with what you can for now - ok (hugs!)

Sometimes it helps to get is all spilled out, then you can start to look at it as a problme to be solved, rather than a millstone that is drowning you.

Some of the questions may seem either blindingly obvious or really complex, depends on what level of understanding you have of the business, and of the industry. Sorry if they are the wrong level, but if you give me some more info I may be able to pitch them better, as it is I have gone in at several levels....

If you are putting your business up for sale then you need to have full up to date accounts. Do you?

are your personal finances and your business finances seperate? Are you trading as a limited company, sole trader or as an employee of the brewery? Are you a tennant, owner, manager?

Do you have any experience in the pub trade, or did it just seem like a nice career to go into? No offence meant, but it helps to know how to pitch other information. Do you have any brewery backup? Training? etc . Do you live in? How many staff do you have, how are they paid - brewery or direct by you/your business?

are your books are in a bit of a pickle or do you know exactly where both you and the business stand financially?

if your (assume quarterly) VAT bill is £3.5k then my guess is that you are turning over in the region of £70-100k pa? Is this the right kind of figure? Whatever you do, make sure your VAT is paid, this is a priority as the VAT man does not do "late payments"

What percentage of wet/dry turnover do you have? What is your GP% on each? Do you know? Do you know what this is?

Where are you in relation to your business plans? Sounds like they were quite detailed, what failed to happen or where were the extra costs?

To get a really good idea of how to start solving your business issues we need to get a clear idea of what you are selling, who to, how much it is costing, how much of it you are selling, what your wastage is, how much are your fixed costs etc.

on a turnover of £80k (ex VAT) I would estimate (without much info this is very vague, using general figres!) that you should be able to pay yourself a salary of approx £20k per annum, plus have all of your living costs taken care of - this is not happening so we need to find out where all of the money is going.

The turnover does not sound too rock bottom, (assuming my guesswork is reasonable) so the money is being lost somewhere else - any ideas where?

Even if you want out, you still want the best price for our business, so come on, lets have a look at where your money is going. I promise it wont be that awful.

Puss

If you are putting your business up for sale then you need to have full up to date accounts. Do you? Almost, they are a little behind but are slowly being dealt with

are your personal finances and your business finances seperate? Are you trading as a limited company, sole trader or as an employee of the brewery? Are you a tennant, owner, manager?Finances are separate but have lost track without looking over personal bank statements of how much and when I have subbed the business account... I am a sole trader and owner of the business but the property is leased from a pub company

Do you have any experience in the pub trade, or did it just seem like a nice career to go into? No offence meant, but it helps to know how to pitch other information. Do you have any brewery backup? Training? etc . Do you live in? How many staff do you have, how are they paid - brewery or direct by you/your business?I had no experience but went through a training course that I felt equipped me well for my endeavour - having second thoughts about that now though!... I live here with my partner....I have 1 full time employee and 2 very part time ones who I am responsible for paying from the business

are your books are in a bit of a pickle or do you know exactly where both you and the business stand financially?Totally Branston! Not a clue other than that cash only seems to flow in one direction and DDs bounce back quite a lot!

if your (assume quarterly) VAT bill is £3.5k then my guess is that you are turning over in the region of £70-100k pa? Is this the right kind of figure? Whatever you do, make sure your VAT is paid, this is a priority as the VAT man does not do "late payments"Actual turnover is about £190(inc VAT), I manage to claim quite a lot of VAT back

What percentage of wet/dry turnover do you have? What is your GP% on each? Do you know? Do you know what this is? Wet : Dry is 85% :15%... Wet GP is 50.54% at the mo.... Dry is approx 60% I think.

Where are you in relation to your business plans? Sounds like they were quite detailed, what failed to happen or where were the extra costs?Business Plan has gone totally out of the window... extra costs were due to inaccurate utility bill figures, replacement of equipment that was deemed to be fit for the job and wasn't... Had a Chef that robbed me blind last summer by ordering supplies and picking them up from the supplier and selling them on... I was very busy at the time and didn't pick up on it until it was far too late. Sky sports killed me last year - hadn't budgeted for it but went along with it as my customers demanded it and the other pubs in the village had it - figured I would be able to pay for it somehow but never managed to get anything like what I needed to fund it - Sky refused to let me out of the contract so I said "goodbye" to another £12k

To get a really good idea of how to start solving your business issues we need to get a clear idea of what you are selling, who to, how much it is costing, how much of it you are selling, what your wastage is, how much are your fixed costs etc.Will have to get back to you on this one!

on a turnover of £80k (ex VAT) I would estimate (without much info this is very vague, using general figres!) that you should be able to pay yourself a salary of approx £20k per annum, plus have all of your living costs taken care of - this is not happening so we need to find out where all of the money is going.

The turnover does not sound too rock bottom, (assuming my guesswork is reasonable) so the money is being lost somewhere else - any ideas where?Utilities, maintenance, bank charges!

poppy_f1

are you tied to the brewery, if not shop around other brewerys/wholesalers to see if you can get the drinks cheaper or other brewerys may offer financial support

OneSpike

Hi. Really sorry to hear things have got to such a pitch, you sound so crushed. I don't know diddly squat about the pub trade, but was thinking about what you could do to give the pub a niche. I know these things are simple to suggest and a million times more difficult to put into practice, but have you though about something like using it as an internet cafe during the day? Obviously investment is required, but it might bring in some people in daylight hours for a coffee and half an hour on a computer who wouldn't dream of setting foot in the place in the evening. How about getting a local business to run a promotional evening (promoting their own business but in your place, bringing in drinkers and maybe changing their mind about the place), or using a room as a venue for local meetings or small businesses? I know this is a boring issue for many business owners, but do you have much in the way of facilities for children? I'm not talking about beer in a baby's bottle! For the times and places that children are allowed in, is there anything for them to do? Could you get yourself on the Ramblers' itinerary, or get known to a cycling group or nature or history group or something who could nip in for a quick sandwich while out for a day trip? Do you have daily newspapers available, or could people buy the local newspaper from your pub? Maybe you could do a pensioners' lunch on a Thursday? Could you team up with local farmer/foody/organic outlets to offer something a bit different or more upmarket than the others'?

On the flip side, is there anything obvious that people might not like? Personally I can't stand the TV blaring out in pubs, that would definitely put me off going to a particular one. What is the ladies' loo like? Are there comfy seats? Do people playing pool have to virtually sit in the lap of people sitting nearby when hitting their shot? These things can make a difference when there's a choice!

These are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I'm doubly worried to read your post as friends of mine are taking over a local pub any day now, and they'll be the third set of tenants in a year, so I'm really bothered they might be in for problems. On the other hand it's a great excuse to go to the pub!

Keep posting...