'Earnings' whilst claiming JSA

SallyGladrags

Hi, can anyone help with this query please. I am on income based JSA, I was made redundant a year ago and still struggling to find a full time job. I am nearly 60 and finding it hard. My benefits don't cover all my outgoings, so I resort to car boots to top up the difference, family help and a bit of private e-baying here and there. My family encouraged me to do some painting (which I used to do a few years ago) and a couple of weeks ago I sold a painting at a local village art exhibition (not mega bucks, it was a small watercolour for £15).

A chap I got talking to has a local craft type outlet and asked me for a couple of paintings to display. He has now rung me to say that one has been sold and he wants me to invoice him for £22! I have spoken to the Job Centre about this and they have suggested that as I am not 'self employed' and I am still available for full time work that this money isn't really worth bothering about. I wasn't very comfortable with this and said should I ring the main benefit people to enquire what I should do. The lady said her advice would be not to do this as it could open a can of worms and flag me up to be investigated! I don't know what I have started here, I am not a person who behaves dishonestly and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I thought that I was breaking the law or something, but I just can't believe that they are in effect telling me to ignore this money. If I'm paid by cheque though it will need to go through my bank account and then could be found anyway. Any ideas on how I should proceed with this, I am in complete turmoil. Many thanks.

WPN

Sally, as long as you meet the jobseeking criteria and making approx £40-50 max a week on average - I wouldn't bother about it (alerting JCP).

People sell off unwanted items on ebay all the time making some small income. As long as the income is irregular and that you dont make yourself "self-employed" it will be ok. Jobcentre Plus isn't clued up on this. I appreciate you being honest and enquiring about this, but like you experienced the staff at JCP are unsure... it then gets complicated as to whether it should be regarded as "capital income" as you are on income based JSA. When a member of staff gets confused they will report you to fraud investigation. It is likely to be low-key compliance officers etc. but it creates a lot of hassle.

So if you selling a few low priced paintings every now and then, don't worry - JCP staff have already advised you this (I appreciate its easier for them to say when they wont be accused of any wrong doing or prosecuted). In the eyes of the law you couldn't be prosecuted for selling a few paintings that you do as a hobby. So I wouldn't worry them about it. Do you claim any other benefits?

SallyGladrags

Hi, thanks so much for the advice. Yes, I also get Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. Does that make a difference do you think? It does seem amazing that the Jobcentre people just aren't clued up on this. In one breath they suggest ignoring it and in the next breath they have been trying to say I should try and make a real go of it and go self employed, which is obviously unrealistic! Just trying to reduce their figures I guess...

dmg24

WPN wrote: »

Sally, as long as you meet the jobseeking criteria and making approx £40-50 max a week on average - I wouldn't bother about it (alerting JCP).

People sell off unwanted items on ebay all the time making some small income. As long as the income is irregular and that you dont make yourself "self-employed" it will be ok. Jobcentre Plus isn't clued up on this. I appreciate you being honest and enquiring about this, but like you experienced the staff at JCP are unsure... it then gets complicated as to whether it should be regarded as "capital income" as you are on income based JSA. When a member of staff gets confused they will report you to fraud investigation. It is likely to be low-key compliance officers etc. but it creates a lot of hassle.

So if you selling a few low priced paintings every now and then, don't worry - JCP staff have already advised you this (I appreciate its easier for them to say when they wont be accused of any wrong doing or prosecuted). In the eyes of the law you couldn't be prosecuted for selling a few paintings that you do as a hobby. So I wouldn't worry them about it. Do you claim any other benefits?

Wrong - if you are producing work in order to make a profit, this has to be declared as income. I emphasise the word profit, any costs can be deducting from your earnings.

The fact that the income is irregular is irrelevant. I know of someone who will get a few thousand royalties every few months, and that would have to be declared if he claimed. The fact that the amount involved here is smaller is irrelevant.

All it takes is for someone to buy one of these paintings and realise that you are claiming. If they report you, you will be in trouble (not prosecution, but certainly some sort of administrative penalty).

Poshbird

WPN wrote: »

Sally, as long as you meet the jobseeking criteria and making approx £40-50 max a week on average - I wouldn't bother about it (alerting JCP).

Where did this £40-£50 per week come from?

I thought it was still a £5er per week max you could earn without affecting JSA? But you still have to declare it.

Thats what I do, £10 every 2 weeks just fill in the form to be safe.

You may as well earn £10 profit every 2 weeks after expences if you are claiming income based JSA. You have time after all. As long as you qualify with all the other things activley seeking work and available for ect etc.

Poshbird

If you start a job a little over a few weeks it could average out about a £5er per week after expences. Expences could be anything you buy or have to spend money on to earn your £5er per week on top of your JSA.

HappyMJ

It's a tricky one. Income and profit has to be declared but any non-profit second hand goods sales from Ebay and any "hobbies" that you do are exempt from both benefits and tax. For the hobby to be eligible you must not be in it for the money. Basically selling at cost only. All the income from the hobby must be spent on the hobby. So if you got a cheque for £22 then go out and buy £22 worth of paints and materials. Zero profit no declaration required.

Poshbird

Yeah but a hobby can make profits. Sometime in the future you will spend money on things to do with your hobby this can be balanced out long term with your profits.

Poshbird

Lots make a little here and there with car boots and ebay etc, would the JC mind if they knew?

dseventy

Poshbird wrote: »

Lots make a little here and there with car boots and ebay etc, would the JC mind if they knew?

If you are selling your own stuff then no.

If you are making stuff to sell, or buying things and selling it on then yes they need to know.

D70

Poshbird

dseventy wrote: »

If you are selling your own stuff then no.

If you are making stuff to sell, or buying things and selling it on then yes they need to know.

D70

Thanks but whats the difference if you bought stuff in the past that you now want to sell?

Does it mater when you buy it and sell it, it could still be a hobby?

I am buying silver bullion bars and coins now the price has fallen so much. I am sure it will go back up and up even more.


Its just my stuff that I may decide to sell, just like a TV or phone or something.