Flying and buying trees blog discussion

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's "Flying and buying trees" blog. Please read the blog first, as the discussion follows it.

Read Martin's "Flying and buying trees" Blog

Replies

  • someone should definitely do a GreenLivingExpert site!
    couldn't agree more with the point though...
  • sorry martin, carbon-offsetting is pretty bankrupt.

    You're just paying for some company to plant the wrong kind of trees on the wrong kind of land.

    http://www.newint.org/features/2006/07/01/keynote/
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1673264,00.html
    My policies are based not on some economics theory, but on things I and millions like me were brought up with: an honest day's work for an honest day's pay; live within your means; put by a nest egg for a rainy day; pay your bills on time; support the police - Margaret Thatcher.
  • There was an article on Radio4 a couple of Sundays back, saying that you pay £17.50 for carbon offsetting, thinking that this is going to get you a new tree planted in a forest.

    In reality, the carbon offsetting company has paid about 50p per tree in a forest that is already planted and paid for (probably with government money). This 50p is to make sure the forest stays there for 99 years, and cannot be chopped down.

    When the program spoke to someone who looks after one of these forests, they said that the original intention of the forest was to stay there forever. So the money you are paying is actually doing nothing, other than giving the forest a small amount of money for signing an agreement about not being chopped down (which was their intention anyway) and giving the carbon offsetting company a lot of your money!

    I think we need to be very careful about these carbon offsetting companies (I'm sure some are better than others).
  • SystemSystem Forumite, Community Admin
    177.9K Posts
    10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Since i cant get MrJudi abroad for love nor money Martin, treat yourself to a plane ride on me. You can have my ticket..... cause i will never use it.:mad:
  • I have been studying global warming at university for some years now, and am suprised that it has taken this long for someone to find a way of scamming folks with good green intentions.

    As always we are looking for the easy out, instead of making real lifestyle changes. If we can spend a few pounds on some 'carbon neutral' scheme (scam) then we can abdicated our environmental responsibility as someone else is taking care of it for us. The old "I gave at the office" phenomenon. Making small changes in our lifestyles is immeasurably more effective than buying a (scam) tree. Not only does the science not add up with these schemes (scams), but the 'quick-fixers' are actually out of pocket, along with the environment.

    In this technological world of video conferencing, email and SMS, the need to fly is arguable. Keeping in touch has never been easier or cheaper. A 5 hour video conference is much less damaging than a 5 hour flight. Especially if you use a green energy supplier.

    I made a personal choice over 10 years ago not to fly again. My family live in South Africa and Australia, and my 62 year old mother is well aware that I will not be attending her funeral when she finally goes to the big garden in the sky. I have not seen them in over 13 years, but that is the commitment I have made to being 'green'. I own a car, but have not driven more than a total of 1000 miles in 5 years. Again, a personal choice. We can all do our bit, and it does not have to be as drastic as my choices. England is becoming warmer and warmer, so that argument of sunnier climes is becoming a bit redundant.

    I have three small kids who will be around with theirs when the brown stuff hits the fan in around 2050. When I pop my clogs I want it to be in the knowledge that I did all that I could....

    Flying and driving may not be the greatest contributors to global warming, but they are definitely the ones EVERY individual CAN do something about!

    For me, buying the tree is like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, and it will have no effect on ameliorating the effects of global warming.

    Do something that really makes a difference...use energy saving light bulbs, turn out the lights, and support and demand hydro and wind energy.

    Stepping down off the soap box...apologies for the sermon, but it is my job to try!


    ___________________________________________________________________

    Diamonds don't bling in the dark! - The Black Eyed Peas
  • I have been studying global warming at university for some years now, and am suprised that it has taken this long for someone to find a way of scamming folks with good green intentions.

    As always we are looking for the easy out, instead of making real lifestyle changes. If we can spend a few pounds on some 'carbon neutral' scheme (scam) then we can abdicated our environmental responsibility as someone else is taking care of it for us. The old "I gave at the office" phenomenon. Making small changes in our lifestyles is immeasurably more effective than buying a (scam) tree. Not only does the science not add up with these schemes (scams), but the 'quick-fixers' are actually out of pocket, along with the environment.

    In this technological world of video conferencing, email and SMS, the need to fly is arguable. Keeping in touch has never been easier or cheaper. A 5 hour video conference is much less damaging than a 5 hour flight. Especially if you use a green energy supplier.

    I made a personal choice over 10 years ago not to fly again. My family live in South Africa and Australia, and my 62 year old mother is well aware that I will not be attending her funeral when she finally goes to the big garden in the sky. I have not seen them in over 13 years, but that is the commitment I have made to being 'green'. I own a car, but have not driven more than a total of 1000 miles in 5 years. Again, a personal choice. We can all do our bit, and it does not have to be as drastic as my choices. England is becoming warmer and warmer, so that argument of sunnier climes is becoming a bit redundant.

    I have three small kids who will be around with theirs when the brown stuff hits the fan in around 2050. When I pop my clogs I want it to be in the knowledge that I did all that I could....

    Flying and driving may not be the greatest contributors to global warming, but they are definitely the ones EVERY individual CAN do something about!

    Trouble is, you are making all these personal sacrifices, but your individual contribution will make no difference whatsoever. Indeed the UK ceasing to exist tomorrow would make no difference either: we are being taxed up the wazoo and subsidised to build carbon-neutral this, and eco-friendly that, but the carbon saving will be eaten by China in about 3 weeks.

    Not only that, but your apocalyptic visions about the world imploding in 2050 have no basis in reality. In the 18th century they were saying the world would run out of food in the 19th. In the 70s they were talking of a second ice age and global cooling. It's all 'catastrophe tomorrow' predictions, but no sound basis other than vague projections based on hundreds of assumptions.

    You've being conned.

    Your lifelong sacrifice is a big one, and to what end?
    My policies are based not on some economics theory, but on things I and millions like me were brought up with: an honest day's work for an honest day's pay; live within your means; put by a nest egg for a rainy day; pay your bills on time; support the police - Margaret Thatcher.
  • banthecarbanthecar Forumite
    44 Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    whambamboo wrote:
    Trouble is, you are making all these personal sacrifices, but your individual contribution will make no difference whatsoever. Indeed the UK ceasing to exist tomorrow would make no difference either: we are being taxed up the wazoo and subsidised to build carbon-neutral this, and eco-friendly that, but the carbon saving will be eaten by China in about 3 weeks.

    Not only that, but your apocalyptic visions about the world imploding in 2050 have no basis in reality. In the 18th century they were saying the world would run out of food in the 19th. In the 70s they were talking of a second ice age and global cooling. It's all 'catastrophe tomorrow' predictions, but no sound basis other than vague projections based on hundreds of assumptions.

    You've being conned.

    Your lifelong sacrifice is a big one, and to what end?

    The difference now is that there is broad consensus amongst the scientific community that peak oil is a fact. And when a world built on oil no longer has that oil something has to give.
    Everything depends on oil, you cant believe that nothing is going to change when it dissappears.
    global warming or not - big changes are ahead and we need to act.
    Work Less - Spend Less - Consume Less.

    Every turn of the pedal is an act of revolution!

    Go by Bike!
  • whambamboo wrote:
    Trouble is, you are making all these personal sacrifices, but your individual contribution will make no difference whatsoever.

    Gosh, what an incredible optimist you are!! Maybe my sacrifices will inspire others to make changes (however small) and heaven only knows where it will go from there.
    Indeed the UK ceasing to exist tomorrow would make no difference either: we are being taxed up the wazoo and subsidised to build carbon-neutral this, and eco-friendly that, but the carbon saving will be eaten by China in about 3 weeks.

    You should be further taxed up the wazoo, until you reduce your environmental footprint. I guess it is easy to shift your responsibility when you deny that climate change is the biggest threat facing mankind in modern times.

    Not only that, but your apocalyptic visions about the world imploding in 2050 have no basis in reality.

    No basis in reality? On what do you base that observation? Scientists have reached a consensus on the global warming issue, and that it is being exacerbated by anthropgenic emission of green house gases. My chosen date of 2050 is based on scientific climate modeling.

    In the 18th century they were saying the world would run out of food in the 19th. In the 70s they were talking of a second ice age and global cooling.

    Yep, the ice age will come after warming has caused the ocean 'conveyor' to stop.
    It's all 'catastrophe tomorrow' predictions, but no sound basis other than vague projections based on hundreds of assumptions. Actually, it is based on one of the largest climate modeling projects ever run on hundreds of thousands of computes around the world

    You've being conned.
    Your lifelong sacrifice is a big one, and to what end?
    To what end? Karma!
  • markb777markb777 Forumite
    9 Posts
    yes researchers have discovered why the ice caps were melting...it was once thought that increasing CO2 levels were the cause by global warming...but this photo has been taken proving without a doubt that polar bears having too many BBQs was the real reason the ice caps were melting...
    bear1.gif
    gdgdafgdafdf
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