Criminal Compliance

insurgentes

I am getting conflicting opinions on just how much powers the Criminal Compliance team actually have. My partners friend is currently battling the CSA to take into account undisclosed income from her ex. Apparently she has been told that Criminal Compliance aren't able to obtain bank statements to use to prove income. Is this correct or is she just being fobbed off because her evidence is weak.

Could somebody please clarify the powers of the Criminal Compliance Team, i would assume that they would like all the investigative work to be done for them, In my case i can prove that my partners ex's outgoings far exceed his declared income, i can also prove the agency he worked for and how he has been paid, but i cannot obtain exact income figures, although these payments would show quite clearly on bank statements and i have the account number and branch. Can the criminal compliance team obtain income tax records from HMRC that show what company paid the income tax on behalf of the employee (i assume a p60 would hold this information). Can they also obtain copies of his dividend vouchers from the limited company he is an employee/shareholder with. £100,000 a year was paid out in dividends to shareholders for the years i am investigating. These dividend vouchers should come with a tax credit attached to show corporation tax has been paid on these dividends, would this information be recorded with HMRC for each individual shareholder or is the voucher and tax credit purely a means that the shareholder can prove that the dividends they have received have been taxed if a tax investigation against the shareholder was to take place. Details of payments of dividends to each shareholder must be recorded in the company accounts, although these don't have to filed with companies house for a small company. Can Criminal Compliance obtain these documents from the limited company and must they produce them by law.

I've done a lot of fruitful investigating and would hate to be told that it cannot be used. just because exact figures are not put on a plate for them. Lots of questions again, any clarification and help would be welcome.

bdt1

OK...............................................................................

I'm NRPP my hubs is a self-employed NRP......Our (or his) PWC has alleged many many many things over the years, so we have been investigated by CSA Criminal Compliance more than once - yet overturned their evidence at Tribunal as PWC didn't have jot of a clue wot our finanaces entailed, but demanded Criminal Compliance involved at each stage anyway as she thought I'm married to Richard Branson (in truth my hubs is in an IVA as business is so bad)

So, I can tell you from experience........................2 Criminal Complaince CSA Officers attended our home, with an appointment, and brought with them copies of our bank statements, they were asking what is deposit a), b), c) etc etc, they had also been to a place of work that my self-employed hubs often does contracting for asking about and demanding pay deals etc etc, the company in question stated they were not my hubs employer therefore had little in way of sub-contracting records, so CSA didn't get far with this, they then looked at his previous employer and tax records............When we got to Tribunal their argument was he went self-employed to evade CSA, yet wouldn't have done so without giving himself the same income as he had when previoulsy employed - in truth, as his wife , we had role-reversed as I had been offered a ob earning more than he ever could - again CSA didn't like this but we proved so at Tribunal!!

So, in answer to your question, they can definitely get bank statements, tax records, and even remove monies from an account(joint or not) in NRP name, as I have previously said, now all CSA Depts are overstretched, doubtful they will even try unless a concrete case, or a very persistent PWC (as our is/was)

With regard to dividends, yes you can easily prove the amount paid, but unless they get statements and see credits paid into an account as such then you could be on shaky ground, unless you get a Judge who will ask for definite proof such credits WERE NOT DIVIDENDS - in our Tribunal we had a DWP Accountant expert as well as Judge and CSA Rep - needless to say we won both cases - we skint, just PWC doesn't realise it!!!!!!!!

insurgentes

bdt1 wrote: »

OK...............................................................................

I'm NRPP my hubs is a self-employed NRP......Our (or his) PWC has alleged many many many things over the years, so we have been investigated by CSA Criminal Compliance more than once - yet overturned their evidence at Tribunal as PWC didn't have jot of a clue wot our finanaces entailed, but demanded Criminal Compliance involved at each stage anyway as she thought I'm married to Richard Branson (in truth my hubs is in an IVA as business is so bad)

So, I can tell you from experience........................2 Criminal Complaince CSA Officers attended our home, with an appointment, and brought with them copies of our bank statements, they were asking what is deposit a), b), c) etc etc, they had also been to a place of work that my self-employed hubs often does contracting for asking about and demanding pay deals etc etc, the company in question stated they were not my hubs employer therefore had little in way of sub-contracting records, so CSA didn't get far with this, they then looked at his previous employer and tax records............When we got to Tribunal their argument was he went self-employed to evade CSA, yet wouldn't have done so without giving himself the same income as he had when previoulsy employed - in truth, as his wife , we had role-reversed as I had been offered a ob earning more than he ever could - again CSA didn't like this but we proved so at Tribunal!!

So, in answer to your question, they can definitely get bank statements, tax records, and even remove monies from an account(joint or not) in NRP name, as I have previously said, now all CSA Depts are overstretched, doubtful they will even try unless a concrete case, or a very persistent PWC (as our is/was)

With regard to dividends, yes you can easily prove the amount paid, but unless they get statements and see credits paid into an account as such then you could be on shaky ground, unless you get a Judge who will ask for definite proof such credits WERE NOT DIVIDENDS - in our Tribunal we had a DWP Accountant expert as well as Judge and CSA Rep - needless to say we won both cases - we skint, just PWC doesn't realise it!!!!!!!!

Thanks for what are encouraging words to us both. I guess i will have to pester like made. Great news from my side. My partners ex was in financial trouble a few years ago and was threatening to stop paying the mortgage (court order) my partner reluctantly agreed for fear of losing hers and her childrens home. I have just found the application for the re-mortgage signed by her ex stating earnings of £35k. His stated employment records also match my findings. His declared earnings to the CSA were £138.00 net pw. I'll be going to the bank tomorrow to ask for a copy of the proof of income that he provided for the re-mortgage. That should really be enough then. Thanks again for you help, i'm sure this isn't the last you'll hear from me. It's great to know that sometimes in life justice does get served.

missbunbury

The CSA in general have very wide-ranging powers to get liability orders, freeze bank accounts and deduct money from them, have people's driving licences taken off them and all sorts more. However, in order to actually use any of these powers they have to have a good reason to do so.

When they first do an assessment, they will do it based on evidence either supplied by the NRP or if NRP is non-compliant they will gather evidence themselves (from the employer or HMRC). If the parent with care thinks the assessment is wrong, they have to provide some sort of proof of this before any investigation is carried out.

An example: imagine I am a PWC and have an NRP (I don't!) who is paying £5pw deducted from benefits. I know he is actually earning money cash-in-hand, but because he's on JSA the CSA won't investigate further as they deem his receipt of JSA to be evidence that he has no other income. If I have no proof of his other income, I can't get anywhere.

Or, I am the same PWC with the same NRP on JSA but let's assume it's contribution-based and he is entitled to it as he's not working, but he does in fact earn £500 profit per month from a rental property. If I can prove he has this income (maybe because I have a copy of the land registry documents showing he owns it and a 12-month tenancy agreement he signed with the tenants last month before he left) then the CSA will look at this evidence and consider whether to take this income into consideration.

So, back to the OP - it sounds like you friend has no proof, even though she knows what she's saying is right, and unfortunately she needs to provide proof to get the ball rolling. At the moment an assessment is in place which the CSA have no reason to believe is wrong, just her phoning up and saying it isn't enough.