This AV thing and the economy

Graham_Devon

Ok, so not so much to do with the economy.

But I got some forms for my referendum vote.

I have looked around, and it seems to be lots of fighting between the lib dems and labour vs the tories.

Lib dems and labour would like to see AV on a whole, it would seem, with some of the parties MP's swaying the other way.

Tories don't want it.

Have I got this right?

Just wondering how you are voting and why. I'll probably say no, as it seems, to me, from my limited research and what I have had fed to me on the TV, that the tories could find themselves outcasts from now on due to the voting system benefitting certain parties over others.

Anyone with a decent understanding able to sway my decision or give me reasons as to why voting yes would be of benefit?

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Ok, so not so much to do with the economy.

But I got some forms for my referendum vote.

I have looked around, and it seems to be lots of fighting between the lib dems and labour vs the tories.

Lib dems and labour would like to see AV on a whole, it would seem, with some of the parties MP's swaying the other way.

Tories don't want it.

Have I got this right?

Just wondering how you are voting and why. I'll probably say no, as it seems, to me, from my limited research and what I have had fed to me on the TV, that the tories could find themselves outcasts from now on due to the voting system benefitting certain parties over others.

Anyone with a decent understanding able to sway my decision or give me reasons as to why voting yes would be of benefit?

AV will, as it stands, give a built-in majority to left of centre parties at every election. If that's what you want, vote yes.

If you'd prefer to see power alternate between Tory and Labour with an occasional coalition Government then vote against.

alisonmeyers

I'm going to bookmark this and check back, because despite having googled around it (game theory AV reasons, AV game theory analysis, and terms like that) I've ended up more confused than ever. And i have no idea which way to vote. I guess I'll stick with No unless things become clearer - I'm not going to vote for a change that I don't understand.

From what I can gather, the weakness of the AV system is that there can be bias towards WHO gets pitted against who. Other than that bias, it's a fairer system. But since the two candidates can be chosen by someone with an ulterior motive, that's why it can be abused.

I remember reading a book a few years ago discussing this EXACT issue (hence my looking online - i don't remember the guy's name or his book title) - in it, he basically tells his story as a mathematician where he is hired as a consultant to rig a CEO type vote.. or something to do with board members... and ensuring that either the person who's hired him is elected... or that a specific person is not? But he has to design a vote system for the company and then let the thing run naturally - his only input is designing the voting system and how it is SET UP - NOT to rig the votes. The male author does this successfully by inspecting the relationships between the candidates, the motivations and influencing factors, and then rigs it all accordingly - using the AV system.

That's a very vague description of the book but i promise it made sense when I read it. The author also talks about buying a car using game theory in another chapter of the book.

If anyone has any insight into what that book might be, or even better yet can point to some clear, relatively unbiased discussion on the whole AV thing, that would be fab!!

abaxas

Generali wrote: »

AV will, as it stands, give a built-in majority to left of centre parties at every election. If that's what you want, vote yes.

If you'd prefer to see power alternate between Tory and Labour with an occasional coalition Government then vote against.

It's even easier than that.

Vote yes - if you understand and want the system
Vote no - if you do not understand the system.
Vote no - if you do not want the system.

Since most people have no idea how AV works, they should vote NO.

ukcarper

After the last election I think I would be hard pushed to find a second preference I could vote for.

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

AV will, as it stands, give a built-in majority to left of centre parties at every election. If that's what you want, vote yes.

If you'd prefer to see power alternate between Tory and Labour with an occasional coalition Government then vote against.

That's what I like. Clear answer with no fluff by post 2

No it is from me.

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's what I like. Clear answer with no fluff by post 2

No it is from me.

Happy to help :^)

purch

I am in favour of a fairer, more proportional voting system.

AV is neither of those, so I'll vote NO.

bengalknights

What was the other system that both labour and cons were totally against?

shortchanged_2

Seeing as I really dislike the system we have in this country which encourages a system of tactical voting I shall be voting yes to AV.

Although it is definately not the answer surely it has to be better than the system we have.

Most elections in this country are a two horse race in the constituences and I don't like a system (the one which we currently have) where I may need to vote for different party that I actually support in order to try to prevent the party that I don't want to get in.

We should surely be voting for the parties that we want to get in and our current system does not allow for this. So for example I would prefer my 2nd choice vote to get in rather than the party I really do not want to get in.

ukcarper

shortchanged wrote: »

Seeing as I really dislike the system we have in this country which encourages a system of tactical voting I shall be voting yes to AV.

Although it is definately not the answer surely it has to be better than the system we have.

Most elections in this country are a two horse race in the constituences and I don't like a system (the one which we currently have) where I may need to vote for different party that I actually support in order to try to prevent the party that I don't want to get in.

We should surely be voting for the parties that we want to get in and our current system does not allow for this. So for example I would prefer my 2nd choice vote to get in rather than the party I really do not want to get in.

Can’t see how AV will change that, all that will happen is that your first choice will be disregarded and your second choice taken, the only way to get what you want is PR.