Council Tax, bailiffs etc (long story)

funkyxmooover

I'll try and be as thorough as I can here, but please ask any questions if I miss something or you're unclear.

Basically it all started last September when my partner got a letter from our local council saying he was being investigated for fraudulently claiming Council Tax benefit. Apparently we didn't declare that we'd become eligible for working tax credit (although I'm almost 100% we did tell them). Anyway, after waiting almost a whole year they sent this letter saying we'd claimed fraudulently. i don't know why, if they knew about the WTC why they waited a year to make a noise but never mind. Anyway, partner went and attended the interview under caution where they decided it was a genuine mistake and we'd pay back what was now being called an "overpayment of council tax benefit".

Except we can't just chuck £500 at them in one big lump and we explained this and said we'd be willing to set up an installment plan with them and get this sorted out as soon as possible. Well, the council said that wasn't possible and that in order to sort out an installment plan it'd have to go to court but if we made token payments towards the figure in the mean time it'd be more likely we would be considered for installments. (I think that was bad advice, why would they WANT it to go to court unless we were showing unwillingness to pay?!!)

But regardless, we made the token payments, got the amount owed down to about £320. And the a summons plopped on the mat. So partner calls them again (I should add he deals with the phone calls because I was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder over Xmas and making calls, especially to those i don't know, bring on panic attacks - Dr wont medicate but that's a whole other story). Again partner calls the council to 1, ask again about installments and 2, find out what action was now required by us. We were advised, that unless we contested what we owed, not to attend. (I personally wanted to go and find out exactly what would be going on but I couldn't get anybody to come with me).

With the court costs the amount went back up to £434. We have still been making payments.

Anyway, Friday just gone (1st April) I found a letter in a drawer that my partner had tried to hide from me (presumably to keep me from panicking) saying that bailiffs had attended to sieze goods (but there was nobody home) and that we could stop them from calling again with a payment of £100 and then installments might be considered.

I have had a good look around bailiff advice online and I get that I don't have to let them in to the house. I WONT let them in. How long from the date of the letter 1/4/2011 do I have to respond? Are they going to come back tomorrow or wednesday or whatever? I am currently living with all doors windows and curtains closed. I could probably scrape together that £100 but wont they then want it every month? I can't afford that! surely they can't force me to pay what i don't have and I don't want to lose my stuff.

What are my options?

dancingfairy

Normally council tax is dealt with through the magistrates court and what's called a liability order is obtained. This basically is where the judge 'rubber stamps' the fact that you are Mr and Mrs x, that council tax is due and that you haven't paid it - at this stage the reason is not important at all. They like to go to court because a) it tends to scare people into getting their act together and b) because it secures the debt in the sense that they are then allowed to attach benefits/wages, send bailiffs etc etc and if they set up a payment plan without it you could default and think nothing of it - with a liability order if you default then they send the bailiffs or try a different method of collection.
Now this is normally how council tax debt is dealt with - I'm not sure how it works with underpayments etc but I am guessing it is dealt with in a similar way? can you confirm it was a liability order that was granted in the magistrates court?
Have a look on National Debtline's website for more advice or phone them.
Have you actualy formally set up a payment plan with the council or have you set yourself up on one without agreeing it with the council?
The bailiffs have set fees they can charge - I think it's around 42.50 for unsuccessful visits at which point they have to return the debt to the council to collect.
The key point to bear in mind is whether they have ever been in your house or levied on a vehicle? You need to find out from your husband if they have as this is vital. If they have been in and done a levy then they are allowed to break in to take the goods - otherwise they are not and you should not let them in. If they've been in you need to come to some agreement quickly with them, if they haven't you have more time/options. Bear in mind letting them in will lead to a lot more fees.
If you have a vehicle and it hasn't been levied on hide it well away from the house - several streets away.
df

dancingfairy

You need to get in touch with the council and get them to take the debt back as I believe you are classed as a vulnerable person under the national enfrocement standards (I think that's what it's called-google it).
You are right about the 100 pounds - it is a pressure tactic and if they know they can get it once they will continue with that tactic.
I have no idea if there is a minimum amount of time between visits but I think it is probably a how long is a length of string type question I'm afraid. It's likely to depend on how busy they are and how many people they have to chase up.
Your local councillor might be a good port of call if the council aren't very helpful as councillors have powers that mere mortals don't -ie they can give the council a kick in the right direction
Best of Luck getting everything sorted.
df

funkyxmooover

We have asked the council time and time again, and then the bailiffs before they visited if we could set up an installment plan and were rejected, (they wanted £100 per month which we just can not do!) Instead my partner called up the council weekly to pay £20 off or maybe just £10 if it was a tight week, nothing official, just token payments to get the figure down, we reduced the bill from £500 to £320.

The bailiffs have never been in nor will they ever come in. I simply will not allow it.

i was under the assumption that an overpayment on a benefit results in deductions being made from what we are properly entitled to ?

We are willing to pay what we owe! That' not an issue, just not the £100 they seem to think I can just magic out of thin air!

dancingfairy

The council should be able to do an attachment to benefits - this will set the amount they are allowed to take each time. I don't think all benefits can be attached though.
I think your best bet is to get in touch with one of the debt helplines such as National Debtline (or try their website) or CCCS and find out what benefits can be attached and then write to the council and request they take your debt back in house as you are vulnerable and request they attach your benefits.
I would possibly also write to the bailiffs, let them know that you are aware of your rights (ie won't be pushed around) and that you have written to the council to request they take the debt back.

Do check that this has all been done through the magistrates court and it was a liability order granted - this is normally how council tax is dealt with but I have no specific knowledge regarding how underpayments are treated so do make sure it's not a county court warrant as that will be a completly different kettle of fish.
Best of Luck
df

CIS

The council should be able to do an attachment to benefits - this will set the amount they are allowed to take each time. I don't think all benefits can be attached though.

Attachable Benefits are Income Support, ESA, JSA and Pension Credit at a rate of £3.40 p/w.

Do check that this has all been done through the magistrates court and it was a liability order granted - this is normally how council tax is dealt with but I have no specific knowledge regarding how underpayments are treated so do make sure it's not a county court warrant as that will be a completly different kettle of fish.

Any Council Tax, whether by way of council tax benefit being recovered or not, will be pursued via the normal recovery route - e.g a bill will be issued, then a reminder, magistrate court summons and liability order (its possible to use the councty court but its not worth it as the recovery methods are severely restricted and more costly to the council).

funkyxmooover

I was also led to believe we were to have 14 days notice from the local authority before the bailiffs came to the house - We never had that. We contacted the recovery company who demanded £100 a month from us, we cannot do that and offered £50 but they wouldn't take it. I am beginning to believe they sent somebody just so they could slp some more charges on there

CIS

The 14 day notice has to be issued but its usually sent as part of the regulation 36 notice 'Request For Information Form' which is issued after the Liability Order has been granted.

funkyxmooover

Its a magistrates liability order. I'm oing down the council after the school run to see what I can sort out. I'm not spending another day behind locked doors and closed curtains

king100

Have you checked with the Council for the following:
1 - how many Liability Orders there are
2 - how much each one was for
3 - the period each one covers
4 - how much is still outstanding on each
5 - the dates they were obtained
6 - the dates they were passed for enforcement

Send bailiff this

My Name
My Address

To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer

Also do you fit into any of these

Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

• the elderly;
• people with a disability;
• the seriously ill;
• the recently bereaved;
• single parent families;
• pregnant women;
• unemployed people; and,
• those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.
  

king100

funkyxmooover wrote: »

Its a magistrates liability order. I'm oing down the council after the school run to see what I can sort out. I'm not spending another day behind locked doors and closed curtains

Do you have a car?

If you do please park car at least 5 mins walk from your house.

If bailiff turns up please speak either through letter box or an upsatirs window. If you have a camera phone that can record please record all actions of the bailiff.

DO NOT LET THEM IN

All they can charge for is

1st visit £24.50
2nd visit £18

A total of £42.50

As soon as he realises you know your rights he should accept a payment plan.


You are not classed as "wont pay" so their threats of prison are non existent from th bailiff and if he hasent got into your home threats of get locksmith and breaking in calling the police are also.

Continue to pay the council as you have been.