P800-Tax underpayment 2007-2008 & 2008-2009

aysegul

I would be grateful if someone can give me advise about the above matter.

I have today recieved a letter from HMRC advising that i under payed on my tax for the tax years 2007-2009 and owe them £1900.
The reason they say i have this shortfall is due to the fact that i had to 2 jobs and both employees where applying giving the full tax free allowances. I have gone back and looked at my payslips and can see that tax was being deducted from only one of my employees, so this means that what HMRC have said is correct. I have been with both employees for since 2004 and have been taxed the same way all the time and have not had anything til this point. I resigned from my second job back in october 2008. Hmrc had over 2 years since i resigned from 2nd jobto write to me however failed to do so.
I have called the telephone number on the HMRC website to say i want to take it through the esc a19. The lady bombarded me with questions. At first she said i can apply through that route but then said that i cant as it is my responsibility to ensure that correct tax is paid. I have said to her that i was given the same tax code (refering to my NI humber when i was 16 and since have been using the same number) and that i was unaware i had to give any other numbers as i had not been told other wise til this point. The woman got really mad and said u just said we sent you a tax code and know you are denying this, when i said that as far as i am concerned the NI number and Tax code were the same thing she said no they are not, (I dont know why she presumed i knew the difference) and said that they can legally go back 4 years to claim any underpayment.
I have advised that the lady that the website says that they can go back only 12 months from the year the underpaymnet relates to.
All she keep saying was that they could go back 4 years and that i would have to pay and kept saying its not their fault and my responsibilty. I asked to speak to someone else she refused and said she would get some to call me back in 2 weeks!!!

Please help me do i have any rights. All this has really confused me. Thanks

chrismac1

This sort of phone call is typical of what you get from HMRC. The taxpayer is guilty until proven innocent, then he's just a pain in the butt. First, post up the details from the tax years and let's make sure HMRC have got their sums right. When it comes to tax, HMRC have a way of making £2 plus £2 add up to a £2k tax bill! Then - if and only if it is correct - we can look into the argument for Esc A19.

dori2o

aysegul wrote: »

I would be grateful if someone can give me advise about the above matter.

I have today recieved a letter from HMRC advising that i under payed on my tax for the tax years 2007-2009 and owe them £1900.
The reason they say i have this shortfall is due to the fact that i had to 2 jobs and both employees where applying giving the full tax free allowances. I have gone back and looked at my payslips and can see that tax was being deducted from only one of my employees, so this means that what HMRC have said is correct. I have been with both employees for since 2004 and have been taxed the same way all the time and have not had anything til this point. I resigned from my second job back in october 2008. Hmrc had over 2 years since i resigned from 2nd jobto write to me however failed to do so.
I have called the telephone number on the HMRC website to say i want to take it through the esc a19. The lady bombarded me with questions. At first she said i can apply through that route but then said that i cant as it is my responsibility to ensure that correct tax is paid. I have said to her that i was given the same tax code (refering to my NI humber when i was 16 and since have been using the same number) and that i was unaware i had to give any other numbers as i had not been told other wise til this point. The woman got really mad and said u just said we sent you a tax code and know you are denying this, when i said that as far as i am concerned the NI number and Tax code were the same thing she said no they are not, (I dont know why she presumed i knew the difference) and said that they can legally go back 4 years to claim any underpayment.
I have advised that the lady that the website says that they can go back only 12 months from the year the underpaymnet relates to.
All she keep saying was that they could go back 4 years and that i would have to pay and kept saying its not their fault and my responsibilty. I asked to speak to someone else she refused and said she would get some to call me back in 2 weeks!!!

Please help me do i have any rights. All this has really confused me. Thanks

You need to find out a copupleof things, which will involve phoning HMRC again.

1st of all, always advise that as far as you were aware, you tax affairs were in order, that covers one of the criteria for ESC A19.

2nd, ask if HMRC issued any tax codes for the 2 employers in those years and ask what the codes were.

If HMRC have issued the correct codes to the employer, but they were not operated by the employer,then the only thing to do is to write to HMRC and claim employer error.

If HMRC say they did not issue tax codes, then ask to claim ESC A19 and explain to them that HMRC have not fulfilled their obligations.

Unfortunately the staff who are dealing with these calls are not fully tax trained, and are recently new to the phone so do not have the knowledge base that many other have.

The person you spoke to is one of very few idiots who act this way, the majority of staff are very helpful.

[Deleted User]

Unfortunately the Revenue often quote at their Seminars "Ignorance is not an excuse" they will expect you to know it is wrong to receive 2 lots of Tax Allowances and your 2nd job should have been taxed at BR, But good luck with you appeal.

dori2o

chrismac1 wrote: »

This sort of phone call is typical of what you get from HMRC. The taxpayer is guilty until proven innocent, then he's just a pain in the butt. First, post up the details from the tax years and let's make sure HMRC have got their sums right. When it comes to tax, HMRC have a way of making £2 plus £2 add up to a £2k tax bill! Then - if and only if it is correct - we can look into the argument for Esc A19.

Absolutely not.

I will agree there are those who do have a manner on the phone that is completely out of order, and I myself have reported one individual for the way they have spoken to people, but the vast majority of staff are not like that and are very helpful during the calls.

You have a serious problem with everything that is HMRC, yet not everything is their fault and maybe, just maybe this is the case here.

Until the actual facts are known then nobody can pass comments.

Your snide comments do nothing but make it harder for people to come on here and get advice as more and more HMRC staff refuse to come on here, which is actually against the rules for us to do so, and help people who have difficulties, there is absolutely no reason for some of your responses.

I suggest you stick to giving advice and keep your opinions to yourself

aysegul

Hi thanks for everyones reply so far.
I have compared the calculations on the P800 with my payslips and a p60 which i have for one employee and it does appear that i have under payed on my tax. So HMRC are correct.

What i am concerned about is why it took them so long to see the shortfall and advise me accordingly. I have never recieved any correspondence or issued any other codes til this point.
On the HMRC website it says something about a 12 month time frame, so surely any shortfall up to the tax year ending 2008 i should be informed by tax year ending 2009 and any shortfall for tax year ending 2009 ahould have been informed by tax year ending 2010. I also need to point out that my second employer sold the business so i lost my 2nd job back in oct/2008.

Dori20- I will call them tommorow to see if any tax codes were issued and what they were. I havent been sent any codes, can HMRC make up a number now for then to cover up that they have issued one, and is their a way to prove that they did issue this?

dori2o

aysegul wrote: »

Hi thanks for everyones reply so far.
I have compared the calculations on the P800 with my payslips and a p60 which i have for one employee and it does appear that i have under payed on my tax. So HMRC are correct.

What i am concerned about is why it took them so long to see the shortfall and advise me accordingly. I have never recieved any correspondence or issued any other codes til this point.
On the HMRC website it says something about a 12 month time frame, so surely any shortfall up to the tax year ending 2008 i should be informed by tax year ending 2009 and any shortfall for tax year ending 2009 ahould have been informed by tax year ending 2010. I also need to point out that my second employer sold the business so i lost my 2nd job back in oct/2008.

Dori20- I will call them tommorow to see if any tax codes were issued and what they were. I havent been sent any codes, can HMRC make up a number now for then to cover up that they have issued one, and is their a way to prove that they did issue this?

No, the issue dates are set once the system has issued the codes. this was the same with the old system also.