How much wealth is acceptable?

N1AK

Cleaver wrote: »

However, I understand the point you make, which is that people from disadvantaged backgrounds can face barriers when trying to progress in life, especially in terms of work. For example, if your parents are white collar workers with plenty of cash then you probably have more factors growing up that help you: parents who encourage you to study, can help you at uni, can provide you with work experience through their contacts, help you get that first job etc. etc.

However, whilst this is a factor that can't be ignored, it's not the main aspect to this argument. We live in a country where we couldn't really do much more to try and help people from diverse or disadvantaged backgrounds.

In some ways I think you are right. Yes, if you have two identical individuals then their past will not limit their success. However, two people born identical will not be when they reach maturity. Those with wealthier, or better educated, or more caring etc parents will tend to be better placed to succeed in life.

It is this issue that brings us to a major impasse. No one wants to take the duty of raising children away from parents, yet those parents are probably the biggest factor in deciding future success.

I was a problem child, to the extent of being sent to a specialist boarding school. I had the good fortune to be born into a family that fought tooth and nail, and succeeded in placing me at a specialist school for 'exceptional' (not my choice of words!) children. The vast majority of children with the same issues and abilities as me, at that point, would have been dumped in depressing schools, more focused on keeping them out of the mainstream than providing a good education.

I finished my 'special' education with good GCSE's and plenty of self-confidence (boarding schools, even those not for the wealthy, seem to have that consequence). I got into a selective school for my A-levels and then completed my degree. I've worked since Uni, and now 6 years later I'm a higher tax payer.

None of the above is intended to show how 'good' I am. It is intended to highlight how factors beyond my control have been so pivotal. Without an intelligent, aspirational mother I am certain I could not have achieved nearly as much.

Conrad

'Watch my latest interview and help me add to my millions - I neeeeeeeed validation and fame over and over - feeed me, admire me, that's it applaud meeee me me me'



"she's a good person, she gives 1% of her income to charity - she needs to retain the other 99% / £30m'

Cleaver

Conrad wrote: »

From my view 'pleasant' people get to a certain level and then spend all / most of thier time helping the needy. Simply piling up an over share of resource is a pointless meaningless endavour.

True I guess. But then we can't really decide who earns what based on what they then do with the money.

lemonjelly

Generali wrote: »

Do you mean wealth or income? Wealth is the total value of your assets, income is a flow of money.

An extremely important point.

An additional question I'd be asking, specifically in the current climate, & with some of the vitriol being bandied about, is whether or not we need to review how we pay people.

The issue of bankers bonuses is a prime case in point, but equally it applies to the mheads of many multinationals, CEO's, & similarly highly paid execs. Many of them qualify for massively high bonuses, in addition to the salaries which they earn.

Now, I'm the first to argue that people will have trained, gained experience, & will have skills which need to be valued, & therefore help set the wage they'd be willing to accept.

However lets come back to the bonus issue. Firstly, with the apparently excessive size of them, & the impacts that these have on the income that household has/will have, could there not be a detrimental effect? Most people will say "oh no jelly, see they incentivise the best to do these jobs, and ensure top performance." Actually, most scientific tests show that where bonuses are excessively high, the person engaging in the task is distracted from their performance of the task, because the sheer size of the bonus is so overwhelming, it seriously affects their capability & clear mindedness in doing the task.

Secondly, given the hugh sizes of many of their "normal" salaries anyway, (figures in the millions are regularly bandied about), why on earth do such people need additional incentives?

Cleaver

N1AK wrote: »

In some ways I think you are right. Yes, if you have two identical individuals then their past will not limit their success. However, two people born identical will not be when they reach maturity. Those with wealthier, or better educated, or more caring etc parents will tend to be better placed to succeed in life.

Agreed. And most of the studies show this to be the case. Not sure if there's that much we can do about it though really, above what we already do as a society.

N1AK wrote: »

I was a problem child, to the extent of being sent to a specialist boarding school. I had the good fortune to be born into a family that fought tooth and nail, and succeeded in placing me at a specialist school for 'exceptional' (not my choice of words!) children. The vast majority of children with the same issues and abilities as me, at that point, would have been dumped in depressing schools, more focused on keeping them out of the mainstream than providing a good education.

I finished my 'special' education with good GCSE's and plenty of self-confidence (boarding schools, even those not for the wealthy, seem to have that consequence). I got into a selective school for my A-levels and then completed my degree. I've worked since Uni, and now 6 years later I'm a higher tax payer.

None of the above is intended to show how 'good' I am. It is intended to highlight how factors beyond my control have been so pivotal. Without an intelligent, aspirational mother I am certain I could not have achieved nearly as much.

Thanks for sharing that. I agree with you to be honest, but not sure what can be done about it above what we already do, or really if we should focus too much on doing any more about it.

My wife was expelled from school at 15. She will tell you that she came from a good family, but that she bascially messed about at school and didn't care. I get the impression that her family could have supported her a bit more, but it was her decision to act like a bit of a di*k and get expelled. She's done okay in life and has a job that she thinks is okay and it pays around the average uk wage. However, she's finding that a lack of formal education is now holding her back in her career somewhat. However, is that societies fault? Or her fault? DO we have a role in 'helping her' as a society? Or should she have just been better behaved when she was 15?

Conrad

Cleaver wrote: »

True I guess. But then we can't really decide who earns what based on what they then do with the money.

We cannot, but as supposedly moral beings we have choices over what to do with all that fame and wealth. We can wallow in fame and wealth and do a little for charity, or we can use our good fortune to help those in desperate need with the bulk of our wealth and fame.

David Mellor way saying he could never retire as there would BE NOTHING TO DO!! Tell that to street children who have nothing at all and would greatly benefit from his time and energy - nothing to do !!!!!!!!

ninky_2

generally i find wealth acceptable. it's poverty that is the problem.

The_White_Horse

if a lot of the problem is caused by kids coming from disadvantaged backgrounds, why do we keep paying scum to breed like bacteria?

wherediditallgothen

Cleaver wrote: »

You'd need quite a few bedrooms to house all of those things though, as I wouldn't want to mix the orangutans in with the babies.

Definitely not if you plan to look after ginger orphans.

wherediditallgothen

Cleaver wrote: »

My wife was expelled from school at 15. She will tell you that she came from a good family, but that she bascially messed about at school and didn't care. I get the impression that her family could have supported her a bit more, but it was her decision to act like a bit of a di*k and get expelled. She's done okay in life and has a job that she thinks is okay and it pays around the average uk wage. However, she's finding that a lack of formal education is now holding her back in her career somewhat. However, is that societies fault? Or her fault? DO we have a role in 'helping her' as a society? Or should she have just been better behaved when she was 15?

Sounds a lot like my soon to be wife :eek: