solar pv and electric car

Ben84

Apparently most car journeys are not long distances, so electric cars with a range of 80 miles are realistic for many people. How often do you go on long journeys, and if you have more than one car is it essential that all of them are able to go on long trips? Within this 80 miles a lot of average people could get to work and back, go shopping or out for the evening quite easily each day. The flexibility of being able to drive as far as you want with a petrol car by filling up as needed on the route is a plus side to them, but petrol is getting expensive and this advantage is not needed by everyone so perhaps for some an expensive convenience they're just not using. Not having to visit the petrol station as you can charge at home may even be a benefit for some people.

They are getting better with time, but even the current options I can see practical uses for them.

Of course, they're still pretty new so I'd ask a lot of questions, including how long the batteries last and what the cost to replace them is.

reeac

Another problem with fully electric cars is heating, demisting and defrosting which, if required, have a big effect on range.

Cardew

Ben84 wrote: »

Apparently most car journeys are not long distances, so electric cars with a range of 80 miles are realistic for many people. How often do you go on long journeys, and if you have more than one car is it essential that all of them are able to go on long trips? Within this 80 miles a lot of average people could get to work and back, go shopping or out for the evening quite easily each day. The flexibility of being able to drive as far as you want with a petrol car by filling up as needed on the route is a plus side to them, but petrol is getting expensive and this advantage is not needed by everyone so perhaps for some an expensive convenience they're just not using. Not having to visit the petrol station as you can charge at home may even be a benefit for some people.

They are getting better with time, but even the current options I can see practical uses for them.

Of course, they're still pretty new so I'd ask a lot of questions, including how long the batteries last and what the cost to replace them is.

The batteries have an 8 year 100,000 mile guarantee.

There is little doubt that the Leaf would be ideal as a second car, but over £23,000 for a runabout!!!!!

antrobus

The real issue with electric cars is this; in order to store enough power to travel 80 miles or so, the Nissan Leaf needs a battery pack costing £12,000 or so. In order to store enough power to travel 320 miles or more, the Ford Focus needs a fuel tank costing what, £50? I mean, it can't cost that much to mold a chunk of steel or plastic into the appropriate shape, can it? What's more that fuel tank will still be functioning ten, or even twenty years later, whilst the battery pack will need replacing within that time frame. That's a pretty whopping cost differential, and one that's unlikely to be ever eliminated.

Therefore when you spend £24,000 buying a Nissan Leaf, what you're really doing is buying a car for £12,000 and a battery pack for another £12,000. Nissan will guarantee the battery pack for eight years so, as long as you abide by the conditions, it will last at least that long, although the vehicle's peformance (range, speed etc) will ineviably decline over that period. So what you're basically doing is paying £12,000 in advance for eight years worth of fuel. (Plus the cost of the electricity of course.) Whether or not you regard that as a good deal would depend on a number of factors. Although one should bear in mind that the 10 Year gilt yield is currently 3.60%, and so that £12,000 would generate around an income of around £430 pa. (Before tax of course.)

Ben84

antrobus wrote: »

The real issue with electric cars is this; in order to store enough power to travel 80 miles or so, the Nissan Leaf needs a battery pack costing £12,000 or so. In order to store enough power to travel 320 miles or more, the Ford Focus needs a fuel tank costing what, £50? I mean, it can't cost that much to mold a chunk of steel or plastic into the appropriate shape, can it? What's more that fuel tank will still be functioning ten, or even twenty years later, whilst the battery pack will need replacing within that time frame. That's a pretty whopping cost differential, and one that's unlikely to be ever eliminated.

Therefore when you spend £24,000 buying a Nissan Leaf, what you're really doing is buying a car for £12,000 and a battery pack for another £12,000. Nissan will guarantee the battery pack for eight years so, as long as you abide by the conditions, it will last at least that long, although the vehicle's peformance (range, speed etc) will ineviably decline over that period. So what you're basically doing is paying £12,000 in advance for eight years worth of fuel. (Plus the cost of the electricity of course.) Whether or not you regard that as a good deal would depend on a number of factors. Although one should bear in mind that the 10 Year gilt yield is currently 3.60%, and so that £12,000 would generate around an income of around £430 pa. (Before tax of course.)

Batteries have been improving rapidly. So much stuff uses them now so a lot of research money is going in to them. Power density matters hugely for portable appliances and cars, as well as size, charging time and of course cost. All of these factors are improving a lot.

However, electric cars are one of the more demanding applications. Early adopters will pay a higher price, but give it five or ten years more and I think electric cars will be fairly common and cost effective.

pitersmith

This is really a good step. Electric cars are eco friendly and they create no smoke. I would like to join you.:beer:

nomoneytoday

pitersmith wrote: »

This is really a good step. Electric cars are eco friendly and they create no smoke. I would like to join you.:beer:

They do however require raw materials such as plastics and metals for the body, and some wierd and wonderful stuff for the batteries..

I think it's a step in the right direction, and (price aside) could be ok for short journeys. However, the internal cumbustion engine still has life in it yet IMHO.

forgotmyname

pitersmith wrote: »

This is really a good step. Electric cars are eco friendly and they create no smoke. I would like to join you.:beer:

Very ECO friendly, They mine 3000 tons of material to get a teaspoons worth of raw materials, Then its processed and shipped all around the world going through different processes at each stage. Until it eventually reaches the car manufacturer.
Then someone buys it and plugs into the national grid which is mostly coal fired power stations.

Where is the green bit? Buy a VW bluemotion if you want to save the planet or drive sowly.

grahamc2003

forgotmyname wrote: »

Very ECO friendly, They mine 3000 tons of material to get a teaspoons worth of raw materials, Then its processed and shipped all around the world going through different processes at each stage. Until it eventually reaches the car manufacturer.
Then someone buys it and plugs into the national grid which is mostly coal fired power stations.

Where is the green bit? Buy a VW bluemotion if you want to save the planet or drive sowly.

So does the material a VW Bluemotion is assembled from simply appear from thin (polluted) air? Does some assembly guy say Abracadbra and one appears from nowhere in his tophat?

Didn't the VW plastic come from oil, and the body from iron ore from a faraway land? And don't you put fossil fuel in the tank?

Ben84

I don't think there's much to dispute that making a new car consumes a lot of resources and that the energy to move it around if taken from a typical socket in the UK will produce a fair amount of pollution from power plants.

However, electric cars in the short term have great potential to improve air quality in cities as the source of pollution is moved to a power plant. It is worth considering the economy of pollution controls on power plants that serve huge numbers of cars and devices against having one in each car? They may also help with balancing the load on the electric grid by consuming energy overnight when demand tends to fall and power plants are much less efficient. They also provide an alternative to petrol/diesel, which until recently hasn't been possible. It's hard to improve the environmental impact of oil based fuels, but electric can be produced in many ways, some less polluting than others, so there's potential to make the situation better. With more nuclear and CHP gas plants the pollution could be much lower with an electric car.