Unacceptable pensions divide?

jem16

EdInvestor wrote:

The result of the old fashioned public sector system is that employees may be in for a de luxe retirment, but right now, they can't afford to buy a house, because their pay is too low.

The maximum pension I can get as a lowly teacher is £15,000 if I were to retire tomorrow. Not exactly deluxe, is it?

wotsthat

The maximum pension I can get as a lowly teacher is £15,000 if I were to retire tomorrow. Not exactly deluxe, is it?

Can't you get another job during your 20 weeks holiday to boost your retirement income? (I'm joking)

conradmum

I am sorry if you feel attacked Cheerfulcat.
It just surprises me that among all the accusations of how damn lucky we all are there isn't a massive influx of prospective employees into the public sector. I know at my college they have problems filling posts, especially in areas such as Engineering and Basic Skills. This is why the Golden Hello scheme was instituted several years ago.
Either the employment terms aren't that good or the majority of the population are ignorant of all the fantastic benefits we get.
If you prefer to work into your 70's self-employed and get a meagre pension, rather than become a publlic sector employee, then that is the choice you've made. Would it make you happy if we all did difficult, stressful jobs for low pay AND had crap pension provision too?
No, you are quite right, I haven't read the links you've put in. I am only speaking from my personal experience, which I've stated earlier in the thread. I also haven't read them because I don't have time - I am too busy doing my job out of hours.

novice-saver

jem16 wrote:

The maximum pension I can get as a lowly teacher is £15,000 if I were to retire tomorrow. Not exactly deluxe, is it?

No.

But it's not bad either.

Another factor which hasn't been mentioned is reduction in pension payment for early retirement (not including poor health).

The DB scheme I'm in currently reduces by about 7% per year, and at 6 years early the pension paid is 66% of what I'd get if I claimed at NRA without any more years service.

Both the LA schemes I've looked at seem to have no reduction.

wotsthat

The maximum pension I can get as a lowly teacher is £15,000 if I were to retire tomorrow. Not exactly deluxe, is it?

Can't you get another job during your 20 weeks holiday? (I'm joking, I'm joking).

This, judging by this thread, is a polarising subject. Surely it's an undeniable fact that public sector workers have excellent pension & benefits provision per £ contributed compared to anyone else. It doesn't give me a problem at all; what annoys me slightly is that public sector workers seem to see this as an accusation rather than a statement of fact.

I'm also rather annoyed by the inference that the public sector has the copyright on crappy low paid jobs when this isn't the case. If I was a nurse or teacher I'd be a bit peeved about this.

jem16

novice-saver wrote:

Another factor which hasn't been mentioned is reduction in pension payment for early retirement (not including poor health).

If I retired 5 years early( I can't retire before 55), I would get 0.742 of my pension so fairly similar.

The English system is exactly the same as far as early retirement is concerned.

A_Nice_Englishman

novice-saver wrote:

No.

But it's not bad either.

Another factor which hasn't been mentioned is reduction in pension payment for early retirement (not including poor health).

The DB scheme I'm in currently reduces by about 7% per year, and at 6 years early the pension paid is 66% of what I'd get if I claimed at NRA without any more years service.

Both the LA schemes I've looked at seem to have no reduction.

The LGPS reduces benefits on early retirement

http://www.lgps.org.uk/contributing/benefits-reduction-table.html

jem16

wotsthat wrote:

Can't you get another job during your 20 weeks holiday? (I'm joking, I'm joking).

Just as well - don't get me started

This, judging by this thread, is a polarising subject. Surely it's an undeniable fact that public sector workers have excellent pension & benefits provision per £ contributed compared to anyone else. It doesn't give me a problem at all; what annoys me slightly is that public sector workers seem to see this as an accusation rather than a statement of fact.

Keep it to fact then. I don't have a problem with that. Unfortunately some haven't and start throwing accusations around like - "I'm paying for your pension through my council tax" and " I have to work till I'm 70 so that you can retire at 60"

I'm also rather annoyed by the inference that the public sector has the copyright on crappy low paid jobs when this isn't the case. If I was a nurse or teacher I'd be a bit peeved about this.

Teachers and nurses are in the public sector, hence the low wages and public pension.

Mortgage_&_debt_free

Hi all

I thought I may be able to offer a personal view, which I will try to put in as honest/brutal terms as I can...

I'm in the LGPS and yes it's an excellent scheme, for which I pay 6% of my salary, and yes, you lot I'm afraid pay the rest.
However, even within the public sector there are anomolies which are causing friction and could lead to conflict in the future;

a) Civil Servants and some other public sectors have a non-contibutory scheme-yes, they pay nothing and get the same, and in some areas better pensions than I will!!

Some areas of public service (police,army,fire) are able to retire far younger than others in other public sectors. I know there are differences re stress, etc, but I imagine that's the same for people in private sector hazardous occupations.

c) Many areas of public service are lowly paid, the average LG pension in payment is around £3000 p.a.

I couldn't agree more that there is a vast disparity in private & public sector pensions. However, I would have thought the most positive approach would be to make private pensions better rather than make public sector pensions worse, so eventually everyone gets dragged down to the same level.
This may be difficult but perhaps more realistic than getting the turkeys (MPs, Public Sector unions, Government, etc) voting for Xmas by taking their own pensions away.

Although I am a member of an excellent scheme I am also putting money away in AVCs/ISAs, etc, because, notwithstanding the above, none of us know what the situation will be in 20 years time and I don't want to be totally reliant on the status quo being the same then.

I have no problem in admitting I'm very lucky and it's (at the moment) not fair and unlikely to become fair for others.

I certainly feel for people who have to put away far more for far less, but I feel far more for the poor people who have put away a fortune over the years into final salary schemes which then collapsed (Dexion, ASW, etc) leaving them with nothing, which the govt then compounded by hanging them out to dry. At least with private pensions it's your money and you know you've got to make provision, these people did that & got stuffed through no fault of their own.

I may be cynical but at the end of the day I'm in a FS scheme and wouldn't put it past this or any govt doing the same again if it was politically expedient, however unlikely that seems at the moment.

In short, we all need to make provision for ourselves & not rely on others, as it could end up (as Dylan wrote) "the first ones now will later be last, for the pensions they are a'changing" (sorry).

wotsthat

Teachers and nurses are in the public sector, hence the low wages and public pension.

It could be argued that nurses and teachers are underpaid and undervalued but to say that they are low paid is a perception rather than fact.

Public pensions and low pay are not directly linked. Not everyone who is low paid gets a public pension but plenty of well paid public servants get one.

The reason public servants get a decent benefits package is because successive governments found it easier to 'hide' pay increases via benefit improvements which kept costs down for past taxpayers but deferred them for future taxpayers.

Don't think this government, or any future one, offers decent benefits because of low wages during working life. They'd rather public sector workers were happy to live on a pittance during both working life and retirement.

This government has done a 'good' job of eroding private pension savings and companies are jumping on the bandwagon and closing down their final salary schemes. Public sector pensions are proving a tough nut to crack but this government (or the next; labour or conservative) will reduce future liabilities one way or the other because it's now on the agenda.

If you are a public sector worker aged 40 or below you will get less than you think now.

I've never had the opportunity to be in a final salary scheme or public sector pension and glad of it - I've known for years that if I wanted a decent retirement I'd have to save myself. I'd hate to be sweating on a shaky final salary scheme or having to read every NHS scheme update and wonder where the shaft is.