temporary-verbal permanent-temporary?

ziggycj

It is legal for an employer to change a permanent contract to a temporary one?

I started working for a department store as a Christmas temp. I was given a 3 month contract, although I was only intended to work for 6 weeks. When the 6 weeks was up they said that I was being offered a permenant contract but as I was moving department, I would stay until the 3months was up and then it depended on the new area.

At the end of the end of the 3month contract, nothing was said. None on the christmas staff were told anything, yes or no. I asked my manager and the HR person said the contracts were coming.

Therefore, as far as I was aware I had a verbally agreed permanent contract.

However, 3 weeks later (still no written contract) the HR person has said she will offer me another 3 month temporary contract so my ne department has more time.




I had a verbal permanent contract so is it legal to now change this to temporary again?

Also I still dont have any written contracts (temporary or permanent).



Thanks

anamenottaken

If you are still working and have been paid continuously since you started (ie if you took a week off you received holiday pay), then your employment is continuous from the first day that you worked on the first contract.

You say you were initially "given a 3 month contract, although I was only intended to work for 6 weeks". How could that have been a verbal contract if there was that discrepancy. Did you actually receive a written document at the time?

You were entitled to a written statement of employment particulars within two months of your start date. They may normally issue this document at the start of the period of employment but if they thought you would probably be working for less than a month then it would not have been necessary to issue it.

From a security of employment perspective, there really isn't a difference between a temporary contract and a permanent one. No contract is really "permanent": it can be ended. What is important is that there is no break in your employment and eventually you will have been employed continuously for a year and be protected from unfair dismissal.

ziggycj

anamenottaken wrote: »

If you are still working and have been paid continuously since you started (ie if you took a week off you received holiday pay), then your employment is continuous from the first day that you worked on the first contract.

You say you were initially "given a 3 month contract, although I was only intended to work for 6 weeks". How could that have been a verbal contract if there was that discrepancy. Did you actually receive a written document at the time?

You were entitled to a written statement of employment particulars within two months of your start date. They may normally issue this document at the start of the period of employment but if they thought you would probably be working for less than a month then it would not have been necessary to issue it.

From a security of employment perspective, there really isn't a difference between a temporary contract and a permanent one. No contract is really "permanent": it can be ended. What is important is that there is no break in your employment and eventually you will have been employed continuously for a year and be protected from unfair dismissal.

Thanks for replying.

For the first 3 months I did have a written contract, but I was only supposed to work for 6 weeks (they gave everyone 3 month contract, but the end date could be before).

But that contract ended at the end of Febuary. At the end of the 6 weeks they said, as long as the new department was ok I would get a permanent contract, but I and all othertemps got nothing. We were told the contracts weren't ready yet. But now I've been told they want to extend the temporary one again.


I'm asking is it legal to change from permanent to temporary? Both are verbal because I still haven't been given any written contract.

stephyt23

ziggycj wrote: »

Thanks for replying.

For the first 3 months I did have a written contract, but I was only supposed to work for 6 weeks (they gave everyone 3 month contract, but the end date could be before).

But that contract ended at the end of Febuary. At the end of the 6 weeks they said, as long as the new department was ok I would get a permanent contract, but I and all othertemps got nothing. We were told the contracts weren't ready yet. But now I've been told they want to extend the temporary one again.


I'm asking is it legal to change from permanent to temporary? Both are verbal because I still haven't been given any written contract.

I'd say that because you have nothing in writing and therefore there is no written proof of ever being offered a permanent contract then yes they can change their minds.

Annisele

Yes, it's legal to "change" from permanent to temporary. Partly that's because, as the other poster said, there isn't really much difference between a "permanent" and a "temporary" contract. Regardless of whether you had a "permanent" or a "temporary" contract, you have very few employment rights during the first twelve months anyway.

anamenottaken

ziggycj wrote: »

Thanks for replying.

For the first 3 months I did have a written contract, but I was only supposed to work for 6 weeks (they gave everyone 3 month contract, but the end date could be before).

But that contract ended at the end of Febuary. At the end of the 6 weeks they said, as long as the new department was ok I would get a permanent contract, but I and all othertemps got nothing. We were told the contracts weren't ready yet. But now I've been told they want to extend the temporary one again.


I'm asking is it legal to change from permanent to temporary? Both are verbal because I still haven't been given any written contract.

In the absence of anything else you are still working under the first set of written particulars - you have continued working, they have continued paying you so the end date has not been applied.

So don't worry.

If you later receive another set of written terms, check that they show the original start date as the time from which your continuous employment began.

DVardysShadow

ziggycj wrote: »

... I'm asking is it legal to change from permanent to temporary? Both are verbal because I still haven't been given any written contract.

With your eyes closed you could prove you are on a temporary contract. But you will have great difficulty proving you were on a permanent contract. The best you could do is demonstrate that the employer said they were minded to offer you a permanent contract - and this is exactly what I think you employer would state if pressed.

So until you can prove that you have a permanent contract, the question of whether it is legal to change it to a temporary contract is not worth worrying about.