Is returning to university worth doubling my student debt?

Fiddlestick

ladyhepburn wrote: »

Bipolar Disorder means you shouldn't do shift work for example, i.e. only 9-5 jobs, as well as other limitations.

Errr what?

How on earth does bipolar disorder mean that you cannot do shift work?

I have several friends with bipolar disorder and I've never heard of that before.

sp1987

I think some of it can be spoken of less directly than by just using bipolar as an example because it is really a question about knowing your own personal abilities and restrictions.

When I was little I ALWAYS wanted to run the London marathon, every single year. Over the years I watched it and watched it, convinced myself I could do it and decided I would. The reality is my running stamina, skill and style does not allow me to do it or sustain it for one mile let alone 26. I do not have the physical capability to undertake that. It took me a good 10 years to realise and it really upset me. Nobody has ever told me I could not do it, I just know wholeheartedly that I could not. So I now completely rule that out when planning my life and have done for many years.

I also do not have the concentration to read a book from cover to cover in one go. I am educated to postgraduate level and did well on my degree, because it always involved reading large chunks of big books, but never a whole one cover to cover. I could not do English literature. I realised that very early and so looked for something that did not involve that ordered reading. I have no idea why I cannot read cover to cover, my brain just gets bored at 4 pages in and will not allow me to continue fruitfully. I studied law so I read chapter 18, then 32, then 1, then 4. For some reason my brain was perfectly happy to accept this.

I think you need to figure out what your limits are and how they conflict with what you plan to do currently.

Your posts are very much that you get very enthusiastic about something, have issues sustaining that enthusiasm and concentration (through no fault of your own, like my running!) and then end up having to give it up. I think you need to be absolutely sure that you can handle a levels for a start before you start massively forward planning anything. You seem to build yourself up big expectations which then upset you when you cannot fulfill them because of a disorder you cannot help having holding you back. Even if you got these a levels, and this degree, but then could not get a job because there just were not enough for everyone, would that massively set you back too?

Do your a levels, do them well and then be open minded with what you do next. You seem to need to enhance your self confidence as much as have loan advice.

barbarawright

How can you be an astronomer if you can only work 9-5? Doesn't it involve a certain amount of night work? (or am I being dim?)

sp1987

ladyhepburn wrote: »

That must have been very difficult - but you achieved it despite your problem. I applaud you.

It isn't a 'proper' problem, I just get pre-occupied with how far away the end is and it prevents me from concentrating.

In hindsight, I shouldn't have said much about illness in my original post, as my question is purely about the financial implications of returning to university. With respect, only people who know me personally will be able to properly judge any health issues which may arise and my academic ability. Everyone I know is supportive of me in those aspects.

I don't doubt your academic ability. It is obvious you are very intelligent. I just wonder if you would be better off seeing how you get on rather than piling on more pressure.

I actually think your illness needed to be stated in the OP as had you not, people may have thought you just could not stick to a programme rather than had difficulties outside your control and could not pursue the work you trained for then. You would have then got an answer of 'why go to uni to drop out again'. I have a friend who did about 4 different subjects, arts, music, humanities and now she is trying to get into tv. She just can't decide what she is doing long term. Would I recommend she goes to uni again? No because it will not help her. She is not prevented from doing any of the above she already trained in.

The specific question about student loans; if you think you can make a return (job and lifewise) on your investment then it seems an option you could pursue. But all the other factors like the job market and your own personal circumstances will affect what return you can expect to get. Plus the fact you have already invested in it, means you need to see a bigger return than you were looking at when you were off to uni the first time around because it has cost you what you have already spent, plus the future spending to achieve it.

Taiko

Just to say this, you will definitely be funding at least one year of tuition fees yourself for this new course. That's a definite, as it's only the repeat years that are excluded from the calculation, not the two that you would've done normally. Fee entitlement is the length of the new course plus one year, minus years of previous study excluding years where compelling personal reasons were awarded, so on a three year course it would be (3+1) - 2 = 2 years entitlement. These are allocated to the final year of the new course, working backwards until all entitlement is used.

If you have your own funding in place for that first year, by all means go for it. Another thing to bear in mind is that Student Finance Wales will take into account the previous time you spent on the course, and may use a clause hidden within the regulations where they can refuse any funding at all for the full duration if they feel you are not capable of completing. It's rarely used, but it has happened. It mainly applies for those students who take the best part of 10 years to complete a course, and is mainly brought into play around the 8 year mark.

purplerose

Apologies for the length of this post in advance but I hope at least some of it is useful to you.

I think you should do some more research into possible career options available to you. Not only to look at the ones you have identified but to seek out potential similar alternative routes of employment that you may not have considered.

A good place to begin that type of research is the Prospects website and the PlanITPlus website. These sites not only give a good rundown of what each job title entails but also give an idea of the skills and qualities people should have that suit these types of jobs. They also provide links to other sites that can give more information and also list related jobs that you can look into. Another good place to look is the Skill Sector Council websites such as SEMTA and possibly Lifelong Learning UK for teaching. Most of the sector skill council websites give a idea of the current and future job market in that sector.

When looking up the jobs I think the best question to ask yourself is "is this me?". For example if you find all the jobs in your chosen field are at the other end of the country, is it worth pursuing if you don't want to move away from your family? Is the amount of pay and hours acceptable to you? Is working in a loud/quiet/hot/cold/indoor/outdoor environment ok with you? Do you like working with other people? A lot? A little bit? Not at all? Will you have to stand or sit for long periods? Will you have to travel? Do you require your own transport? How long does it take to get into this job? What age will you be when you complete your studies? If you meet someone and have a family, how will that impact? Are you inclined to give it up at all if you do have a family? Could it impact upon health in any way? - All of these are good things to consider when going over each job type and also when thinking about the amount of time and money you want to put into your choice.

I'll give you a personal example - I fancied teaching for a while and actually got an opportunity to spend a day in my old high school which was very pleasant until I was reminded of the amount of discipline and control teachers must exert over a classroom of pupils. Watching one teacher go from a nice, calm man to a rather scary loud voiced one then back to nice and calm in the space of about 5 minutes when dealing with a pupil text messaging in class just put me off the idea for life. That was furthered by the fact that every class I visited - all the kids looked so uninterested and I thought that would be really hard; standing up there day after day teaching to a class who looked like they couldn't care less about what you were talking about. Now when thinking about teaching, I had never really thought about that sort of stuff and it made me realise how important it is to find out about the good and the bad side of a job and figure out whether you want to deal with the bad side. After that I figured it might be nicer to work with adult learners instead who might be a bit more interested and require less discipline. (I'm not trying to put you off teaching here, just that's how it was for me).

At the moment, I'd say that starting off by doing the A Levels sounds like a good idea because even if you don't take the education route any further it is something to put on your CV. Additionally, achieving something like that can do wonders for confidence which can be lacking in many people who have encountered long term unemployment. It has also seemed to me to be easier to find part time student jobs than it is to find a full time job so this means you also have employment experience for the CV.

I'd also say - try to get some experience of doing what you think it is you fancy doing. If it's teaching - is there any voluntary work available? I know locally to myself there is a charity that does "lab and lorry" which involves driving around the country with other students in a lorry to high schools to demonstrate science experiments. A friend of mine with a physics degree did that for a time and loved it. There are also part time jobs at the local science museum as experiment demonstrators. I also know there is an astronomy club or two nearby. So find out if these sort of things are in your area and get involved if you can - saying you've been a member of the local astronomy club for 6 years in addition to all of the studying will look even better on your CV. Not only that but it'll give you a flavour of what you might want to do some day and perhaps even give you some useful contacts to use when you're looking for a job in the future. Another friend of mine planned to become an english teacher at high school but whilst volunteering with a young peoples charity she was offered a full time job and went to work with them instead of going to teacher training and she has never looked back.

You never know what kind of opportunities might present themselves to you. It may very well be possible to pursue physics or astronomy in some way that interests you entirely without the need to go to university. So I suppose the main advice here is - do the research, discover all of the avenues available to you, weigh up the pros and cons and consider what's important to you in life before making a decision and even once you've decided on something then keep an open mind about other possibilities. With regard to the fees - they seem massive and yes I'd baulk at £50k of student loans but that's something to include in your research - I'm not familiar with how student loans work outside of Scotland but if there is any chance of the interest rate increasing dramatically then that would be off putting. Otherwise, if it's likely to remain low and you earn enough to pay toward it then you'll never miss it as it's deducted from salary so you'll never have it to begin with. As someone said earlier - if it all gets you a good job and you can afford the loans then it's worth it. If you don't get a well paying job then you won't pay it back anyway. However, another thing to consider would be what would happen if you had to leave the course early for any reason - you could be asked to pay it back early so it's a case of being certain about your capabilities and of making the correct choice for you.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you end up doing

MsHoarder

I'll second (or third) the point that the Student Loan Company may well not give you a loan, so you may well have to find private funding.

Also, even physics jobs are currently hard to find. Especially if you want to limit the normal hours so much (all those who can study more than just Venus and Mercury will be more attractive employees), and the degree will involve lots of long hours of studying at certain times of the year.

I don't know much about languages, but could you find written translation work? That would still use your language skills but without the mental strain of "real-time" interpreting.

themull1

If you don't go for it you will always regret it. You only live once!! Do what YOU want to do, not what other people want. Good luck.!!:D

Voyager2002

I don't think it is useful to try to look too far down the road.

The immediate situation is that you have been accepted to do 'A' levels in Maths and Physics. That sounds like an excellent idea: these qualifications are difficult and so are highly regarded, and can open the door to a number of different courses and careers.

I do suggest that you postpone further planning until you have seen how you get on with these subjects at 'A' level. Assuming you want to continue with them, consider doing one or two years of a degree with the Open University, so that you would not run into a brick wall with student funding.

As others have pointed out, there are very few jobs available in observatories, or more widely in research. (And the pressure and insecurity of a research career might not be what you need, anyway.) However, a degree with a high Physics content (and this includes Maths and Engineering, as well as Astronomy) would equip you to teach Maths as well as Physics, or for a range of positions within the health service such as Radiography.

fatbadger2

I would like to say I hope you do go to uni. For someone living with a mental health issue it is an easier less pressured environment which may help, and it is the most rewarding place to be full stop.

best of luck to you