World energy crunch as nuclear and oil both go wrong

ninky_2

vivatifosi wrote: »

It wouldn't kill us though to go back to terry nappies. Or to take glass bottles back to the point of sale for reuse. Or to recycle more plastics, glass and paper. Or to walk to the nearest supermarket with a shopping trolley.

Reality is that we in the west will still have it relatively easy while those in the developing world will find living at the margins even harder.

terry nappies still need washing (energy and water use / detergent consumption). recycling requires large amounts of energy. even walking burns calories that require food (resources) to replace.

none of these things can solve the actual problem of just too many people.

vivatifosi

ninky wrote: »

even walking burns calories that require food (resources) to replace.

True, but its not as if for the average brit they aren't a few calories they can't afford to lose:rotfl:

All resources expend something, its about not being so wasteful and thinking about the impact of what we do (well it is in the west anyway). In the developing world, its far more marginal and I get that.

ninky_2

vivatifosi wrote: »

True, but its not as if for the average brit they aren't a few calories they can't afford to lose:rotfl:

All resources expend something, its about not being so wasteful and thinking about the impact of what we do (well it is in the west anyway). In the developing world, its far more marginal and I get that.

but i want to fly long haul, have a new mobile, drive a car etc etc. i want to be able to enjoy the benefits of a modern lifestyle not go back to a life of luddite frugality. i'm not prepared to give that up so that we can keep on reproducing and eking out stuff more and more.

Conrad

ninky wrote: »

none of these things can solve the actual problem of just too many people.

Yes, this has been troubling nme of late, but what to do? Charities are out there making sure people's are living longer and are hell bent on these people being able to enjoy a Western standard of living, which peeves me a little - watch those Ray Mears shows when he spends time with indeginous hunter gatherers who seem much happier than we in the West.

Why do white well meaning middle class people have this buring desire to alter such peoples lives? It starts with a well and a classroom in a village, but all too often then erradicates local bushcraft skills which ultimately leads to people moving to mass shanty towns in seach of the fabulous western life style.

ninky_2

RenovationMan wrote: »

LOL, obviously. Talk about stating the bleeding obvious.

ANYTHING is not sustainable if demand outstrips speed to replace.

exactly the point i was making. at current human levels nothing is sustainable.

ninky_2

Conrad wrote: »

Yes, this has been troubling nme of late, but what to do? Charities are out there making sure people's are living longer and are hell bent of these people being able to enjoy a Western standard of living, which peeves me a little - watch those Ray Mears shows when he spends time with indeginous hunter gatherers who seem much happier than we in the West.

Why do white well meaning middle class people have this buring desire to alter such peoples lives? It starts with a well and a classroom in a village, but all too often then erradicates local bushcraft skills which ultimately leads to people moving to mass shanty towns.

i think you are a little confused if you think it is the west improving these people's lives. it's not missionary work that has raised living standards it's the march of global capitalism. the same thing that has raised our living standards. for (just one small) example the new indian wealth owes way more to the jobs provided by call centre relocation than any oxfam help ever.

ray mears is just a nonsense telly show. it's hardly representative of a global trend.

ninky_2

RenovationMan wrote: »

Sea water levels are not only sustainable, but increasing.

nothing that we need for human survival.

Conrad

vivatifosi wrote: »

All resources expend something, its about not being so wasteful and thinking about the impact of what we do

We are going to run out of everything from fish stocks in the South China sea to rainforest replaced by monocrops such as the crispy making palm oil (it's in everything now).

One way or another Earth is going to bite back, and we are going to have serious resource issues.

Did you know all the gold ever mined will fit into just 3 Olympic swimming pools. If Microsoft and co get thier way, which they will, we are all going to be monster consumers - whole rooms turned into a PC in effect- what is it with these people that need an electronic diet 24/7? Soon whole walls in your home will show a user changeable image say of the Alps - God it's all so banal.

It's actualy comical in a way that Mankind is stumbling into this pathetic gadget oriented lifestyle with !!!!!!!!s on shows like 'Click' basically implying our lives are not whole without an endless parade of gadgets and updates.

Bring on, I look forward to a more old school society actualy, when we grow up a bit.

Alter_ego

RenovationMan wrote: »

Sea water levels are not only sustainable, but increasing.

Yes but you can't knit a scarf with it!

grimsalve