Calling all bankruptcy wise owls - newbie/long time lurker needs help :)

HOLIDAYMAD_2

Sorry didnt mean to ask what you were repaying , that was badly worded , i was howver confused as on some posts you appear to be a BR then on others on a DMP . I dont like DMP for the following reason.

1. Often for ten years.
2, Credit file is full of defaults because to get on to a DMP you have had to be defaulted on the original term and conditions.
3. Your credit file never recovers until 6 years after it has all been settled. So if you kept to it fully over 10 years from day one , it would be 16 years and one day before your file was first recovered.

4. Mobile phone companys such a Orange may not do further credit checks if you are paying the contractual amount and bill , Orange confirmed this to me , when they insisted i had a upgrade, i told them i couldnt have a upgrade as i would fail the check , they laughed and said we use our discretion to do this and in my case they did not CR me again - and i got the fancy upgrade. Mine was two weeks before my BR.


Just going back to tenancy agreements, when a landlord wants a tenant to leave whether it be because they want to move back in, or you dont get along etc , they have to issue correct notice within or out of the original fixed term.
Clauses such as bankruptcy mean nothing , its a waste of print , there is nothing in the housing legislation that can make you leave due to bankruptcy, what that clause does is give a term and condition of being a tenant, and by breaching that , the landlord can say you have breached the agreement by doing BR and therefore i shall issue you notice. Therefore on that ground its notice to bring the tenancy to an end under S21 of the housing act .

But two clear months have to be given out of the fixed term when it becomes periodic, if in the original fixed term it can be given at any time.
ie a knowledgable landlord will always issue notice when they give the tenancy but it cannot end earlier than the end date of the original fixed term being 6 or 12 months but can be served at any time in the original term.

If i was a landlord to protect myself i would give a 6 month AST and issue notice at the start , but remember to be forced to leave only a County Court judge can issue a possession order and you have the right of occupation until a baliff warrant is executed .

A Possession Order can not be applied for until the original fixed term has expired at the court hearing the judge can grant up to 42 days for you to leave.
If s21 of the act is used there is no defence in court.

When you renew a tenancy , you are not entering into a new tenancy, original tenancy has just gone into a periodic status, but agents get more money off you , ie the expression money for old rope.

Just to add S21 , does not apply if the landlord is applying for possession on the grounds of rent arrears, however as that can be defendable ie dispute of Rent arrears it is under a different ground, ground 8 and at court the landlord has to evidence over 8 weeks arrears. But it would be mandatory possession if proven.

Most landlord unless they want a money judgement will always go under S21 as possession is mandatory.

The full tenancy pack is available for £9.99 in wh smiths inc the plethora of every agreement and notice, a agent will charge near on £200. 00 for the same paperwork which they have down loaded off the net- as ive said - money for old rope.

Penelope_Penguin

HOLIDAYMAD wrote: »

Just to add S21 , does not apply if the landlord is applying for possession on the grounds of rent arrears, however as that is defendable ie Rent arrears it is under a different ground S8 and at court the landlord has to evidence over 8 weeks arrears.

Most landlord unless they want a money judgement will always go under S21 as possession is mandatory.

I know this isn;t the subject of this thread, so I apologise in advance, but are you saying that Ground 8 - more than 8 weeks' rent arrears is a discretionary ground for possession, in court?

HOLIDAYMAD_2

Ground 8 - Rent Arrears. No im saying that it can be defended if the tenant objects the arrears are not at 8 weeks plus and that both landlord and tenant would need to evidence such.

But Ground 8 is MANDATORY possession if the judge is satisfied rent account is over 8 weeks in arrears. But as we all know judges have a habit of doing what they like.

ive seen a tenant very recently argue that they were not in arrears yet def owed two years worth of rent but still bought time in remaining and arguing such , they stated the landlord had made up the arrears and they had paid the landlord in cash payment but that the landlord refused to give receipts, ie tenant totally lied in court and on the paperwork , possession was granted , but the landlord was at fault as he struggled with records to demonstrate arrears and he hadnt given receipts , as such the tenant used that from the outset to their advantage .
That tenant used there schedule of HB to say they had paid the monies over by cash, they in fact had kept the HB for themselves , judge really had no evidence off the landlord that it had been paid but did give possession . Had the tenant had had legal representation i think they would have won. But funny enough they couldnt be bothered at that point.

Had he have gone in earlier with S21 he would have had them out about 12 months earlier but he couldnt get a correct S21 issued. Everyone he had issued was invalid.
Those tenants tied that landlord up in knots and were always one step ahead .

On other hand ive seen judges allow someone to stay and arrears put in place on a AST, no rhyme or reason to either.

And then there is that really good piece of case law where the landlord didnt put the deposit in the government fund ie Tiesina etc (spelling is wrong) but shows what defence can be sought on what can be considered mandatory grounds whether it be a s21 notice or ground 8 application .

I would say a clued up landlord/agent would not bother with ground 8 if they def wanted the tenant out , because a clued up tenant will pay the arrears up to the date to remain and the landlord is back to square one, local authority prevention funds will give money to the tenant to clear the arrears and keep them in the property so not to have any duty to them even if only a interim duty to provide temp accom .

The reason i said what i did about notices in this post , is that nearly on every post i read , its a question what happens with my tenancy if i go BR , many seem to think by going BR and there landlord finds out they can just chuck them out -

Im trying to get across they cant and also trying to get across you cannot just change tenancys to suit the purpose of your cirs.

Hope that makes scence.

Ineedaname

HOLIDAYMAD wrote: »

Sorry didnt mean to ask what you were repaying , that was badly worded , i was howver confused as on some posts you appear to be a BR then on others on a DMP . I dont like DMP for the following reason.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however, DMPs have their place and can result in debts being cleared, a lot depends on individual circumstances and changes in same over time. Sometimes a DMP will be used just to get someone through a slump until they can meet full minimum repayments again. Other times it gives a person time to sort other aspects of their life out before going BR.

1.There is no set time limit to a DMP, usually agreements last 6 months before a new income/expenditure is requested.
2. Not necessarily, all depends on individual circumstances. Although I'm sure once a DMP has been agreed most creditors would still mark a default on the record.
3. True, but as I said earlier, you don't know my full story, nobody on here does, and I had health reasons for sticking with a DMP until now when I am finally able to consider BR as best way forward.
4. All I can say is that there is a check on my credit file from Orange for my recent upgrade, so they checked me and I passed for whatever concessionary reason they have, e.g. no missed payments.

dancingfairy

Hi Mummybiz - a couple of points from me:
1) a dmp is flexible so if your mortgage goes up then your payment to your creditors may have to go down, similarly if you got a payrise you could offer your creditors more.
2) You could consider trying to make full and final settlements to your creditors - depending on the length of time you have been paying a reduced amount they may accept some not bad settlement figures - this obviously would only help if you were able to squirrel away tiny amounts for a while until you had enough to make an offer (perhaps if you had sufficient emergency fund that hadn't been used ) or if you had family/friends that could help - I believe you can get settlements as low as 30% if you are really lucky/ a good haggler even if you settled some it would all help.
3) I note you said your husband has a good professional job - do check whether it would be affected with bankruptcy - bankruptcy prohibits you from certain jobs/occupations - things like law/accoutants/finance jobs it affects mostly although some firms also have clauses in their contracts - if in doubt your husband should check with a trade body and also annoymously via his HR department.
4) At the moment I've calculated it will take about 7 years to become debt free with your current payment if interest and charges are stopped. Obviously if you are planning to go back at some point you will need to work out how much extra this will add to the repayment towards creditors and work out how long the repayment will take. You will then possibly be clearer whether you want to continue with your current path or whether in actual fact bankruptcy would be better for you.
df

HOLIDAYMAD_2

inneed of a name

Im not having a go you for being on a DMP, and yes i agree that they work but for a lot they do fail, because of the time it takes to clear the debt and implications of your credit ref file and creditors getting fed up for them to be settled.
That is why you do the reviews. so if it can be demonstrated you will end up paying more , creditors wont normally accept less on a review.

10 years i understand is the max that payplan, cab and CCCS will agree. But many will be in shorter ones again dep on there cirs.

But your only clear of these debts and your credit file should show only settled at the point they are individually settled not in the time frame of the plan and that file should continue to show the worst status up to 6 years and one day later after the debt has been settled.

If it was a case of a DMP actually improving your credit status / credit file we would all be on a plan, and there would be a lot of abuse in getting new credit .

It is also a breach of any DMP to obtain any non essential credit in the term of that plan because by being on the plan the creditor considers that you have defaulted on them and ie owe them money but has agreed to stop recovery action and reduce intrest and not pusue charges.

But a creditor has the right to change there mind and come away from the plan at anytime and that is why they fail because creditors are not prepared to wait a long time for settlement so then hit you again with seperate recovery action, hense stuffing up all the good work your have done and cont damaging your credit file.
Can you imagine how gutted you would be if that happened.

I agree not all debts will have gone into a default status, but normally they have because being on a plan is the cause of a default, its not a intrest free period .

Creditors can not pursue a BR for old debts nor someone in a IVA, i suppose the point with DMP 's is they are good for those not wanting to get a CCJ , you cant put CCj into a plan , its only a good faith agreement and not legally binding in anyway.
Worst case scenario, the creditors change there mind 6 months before the end of the plan and go for recovery action, adding back on intrest, charges etc , getting a CCJ etc , and taking you back to square on- that is why they fail.

Ineedaname

Your point of posting at length about the ins and outs of DMP on a BR thread is? The OP asked a specific question about DMP which was answered many posts ago, we had a short discussion about DMPs because you asked me a question, otherwise please try to stay on topic.