another 2 question pre BR

HOLIDAYMAD_2

I spoke with OR help line re my mortaged property which is in massive negative equity , they explained that OR will key an eye on it for 2 years and 3 months, at that point if still no equity they revest back to me.
I thought i still had to sort out the selling of my BI of it for a pound plus conven fees , help line said not anymore. im assuming im ringing the right help line. that the sale of a pound and fees has been removed.

Ctax arrears with liaiblity order's- ok i know these cant be wiped for BR as the laibility order is in place, helpline said if not collected within 12 months by council or baliff they are wiped and that the baliff if they got walk in possession could not remove any considered assets as they belong to the OR- is that right, obviously i dont let the baliff in, but would like to be 100% sure , in case council go for a commital instead.
i am paying some arrears back buts its a farse as they refuse to accept im on my own. ive even complained to the ombudsman as they added 1500 pound of single person discount back on to the bill as they said they had conducted a reference check and there are utility bills in may name and estranged husbands- well of course they are as they are debts and cant switch acccounts into solo names. im now entitled to full benefit but they refuse to accept i dont have apartner with me, no interviews or evidence etc just there assumption.

debtinfo

Yes the guidelines have changed for properties, there is a long discusson thread around somewhere

C Tax - the debt is included in the banckruptcy - they can still continue with baliff action - you dont have to let them in your house - you wont get commital proceedings or any other

HOLIDAYMAD_2

OR helpline said the debt with a liability order can not be part of the BR, but if the baliff didnt collect at 12 months the LA must write it off, therefore my understanding is that the debt remains and its a admin process with ctax regulations that removes it.
So if they cant get in and take assets, taking into account OR says assets belongs to the OR, they cant make you BR as you are, surely if the debt is significant then commital is the only way forward, or do they just hope you will pay it off.

HOLIDAYMAD_2

just to add whilst easy to say dont let them in, they are flaming smart, i know someones who kids forgot to lock the door, they walked in and levied sticking the detail to the TV.

So my advise in the hot weather that will becoming our way, shut the door always and lock it esp the back ones as coming in from the back gate or over the fence is often a way in for the baliff with low level windows open and patio doors open. That is still considered peaceful entry.

debtinfo

that is wrong, the debt is what is technically known as a proveable debt which means it is included in the bankruptcy, the debt will be discharged as all your debts are when you are discharged.

I think that the problem here is that you dont understand the technicalities of bankruptcy (dont worry not many people do). Your debts are either provable or non provable (eg debts incurred by fraud) all provable debts are included in the bankruptcy. When the bankruptcy starts you dont lose the debt straight away, the bankruptcy simply protects you from legal action being taken against you, the debts still exist. When you are discharged (usually 1 year) that is when your liability for that debt is discharged, ie when they cease to be yours.

Now that is what happens to all proveable debts unless there is an exception under other legislation. With a liability there is an exception (it is still a bankruptcy debt and will be discharged) in the meantime if bailiffs are to be instucted they may continue with that action (alhough many councils do actually call of the bailiffs once you tell them you are bankrupt) and can actually even recover assets already taken by the OR. BUT they can only continue with that one bailiff action, they cant start any new action for instance an attachment of earnings order. You only get comittal proceedings if you are refusing to pay rather than unable to pay, by being bankrupt you have demonstrated that you are unable to pay.

So in conclusion unless there has been some sort of fraud then you should be ok, tell the council as soon as you go bankrupt

HOLIDAYMAD_2

i understand what is provable and what is not , yet what is concerning is the level of explanation given by officials, my understanding is i cant enter into private arrangements or leave people / accounts with nothing in them off the BR petion and by doing either is unlawful. im not allowed to show preference to anyone inc my mortage company , even if i became homeless as a result , hense why i wanted to know in a seperate post how it would be considered if mortage arrears were repaid over a unsecured debt.

Im told by the help line that if arrears are paid out of my money im likley to get a BRO , but from someone else account and totally there money ie ive not transferred it then that is ok.

Back to CTax what do you mean in that no new action can commence, my understanding is with baliffs such as bristow and suttor is that the council passes them the debt for 12 weeks, first visit i incur a charge normally 45 pound as baliff is self employed any subsequent visits are at his cost. Yet they can still continue with recovery action. if so why can they and a unsecured lender cant.

Why are arrears for secured debts such as secure loans or charging order not allowed in BR but if home is repossed they are.

Why is a student loan not included in BR - it is a debt if you cant pay it.


i know to many questions - lol

alastairq

Why are arrears for secured debts such as secure loans or charging order not allowed in BR but if home is repossed they are.

Why is a student loan not included in BR - it is a debt if you cant pay it.

because once a home is re-possessed, then secured debts have lost their security.

Therefore they become unsecured debts, and if Pre-BR, then they get included in the BR.

Student loans are one of the 'debts' exempted under BR law, from BR.....as DI stated elsewhere.

Court fines are exempted as well.

dojoman

Out of curiosity you say you are not a newbie, I was wondering what your old username was?

debtinfo

the answer to many of those questions is going to be because the law says so, there are many laws buit up over a long time which overlap other areas of the law and on top of that the judges at various times decide on their own interpretation of the law, so it gets more and more complicated over time, layers upon layers.

take preference payments, it is not true that you cannot prefer anyone, simply that the law says who you can and cannot prefer. Mortgage payments are allowed to be kept up, mortgage arrears are allowed to be paid in preference to your unsecured creditors, The mortgage (including any arrears or charges that arise out of the contract) sit outside the bankruptcy until the property is sold, it is only then that any shortfall is included in the bankruptcy (because they have nothing to secure it on anymore)

anycharges incurred by the baliff will still be included in your bankruptcy debt if they cant realise anything from goods taken (or are not able to take goods) again the action is based on the pre bankruptcy obligation. There are various things that the council can do if they gate a liabilty order(for instance bailiffs, attachment of earnings, bankrupt you, add it onto next years payments), when you go bankrupt those options are reduced down to just one, the baliff action, and if that fails (for instance if they cant get in) then the council can not take any other action, they have lost their right to act on the liability order,

hallowitch

Ctax arrears with liaiblity order's- ok i know these cant be wiped for BR as the laibility order is in place
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/contents/made
The council Tax( Administration and enforcment ) Regulations 1992


Regulation 49
Insolvency

49.—(1) Where a liability order has been made and the debtor against whom it was made is an individual, the amount due shall be deemed to be a debt for the purposes of section 267 of the Insolvency Act 1986(1) (grounds of creditor’s petition).
(2) Where a liability order has been made and the debtor against whom it was made is a company, the amount due shall be deemed to be a debt for the purposes of section 122(1)(f) (winding up of companies by the court) or, as the case may be, section 221(5)(b) (winding up of unregistered companies) of that Act.
(3) For the purposes of this regulation the amount due is an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made.

HOLIDAYMAD_2

no reason why not to disclose just simply cannot remember and registered on old work email addresses , i was on the very old forum for a long time but prob two years has passed since i visited it, when i reregisted ive chosen names too close to my name and then realised that is not good, so today reregisted under a different screen name.

i also know many from name only on the old sites pre this forum, my suitation was back in 2006 on a small authorised overdraft , hsbc took thousands out of a account to pay off credit cards, loans etc that were being totally serviced we were left so skint over that xmas we couldnt afford loo role and i considered several times suicide, i got my esteem back from this site and have taken many knocks from the court and bad advise from CAB - but i will suceed and improve my whole well being.

Hallow witch what does that mean in plain english.