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Current PV panel prices

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Comments

  • grahamc2003
    grahamc2003 Posts: 1,771 Forumite
    edited 2 July 2011 at 12:08PM
    bjohnson wrote: »
    And surely we have a contract, the FIT agreement, between ourselves and the relevant power company. The Government has nothing to do with it. Presumably if the power company renege on the contract we could sue them, although I must admit that the agreement is so long that it would take a bit of time to read it. There may well be a get-out clause. Also of course what happens if the power company goes broke? Anything could happen in 25 years.

    My understanding as a non-solicitor is that governments can pass laws to do anything they want. Contracts are routinely declared void in the courts following government legislation - the 'unfair terms' act. If you get a court to agree that a term in some contracts you have signed is 'unfair' then the court can simply set that condition aside as if it never existed. If they want, they can simply pass a law saying all rent a roof schemes are illegal, and nullify all the contracts (I'm not saying they will, just illustarting they have ultimate power to do what they want - what the governement giveth, the government taketh away).

    My view is that a day is a long time in parliament, and 25 years is a very long time. If the public perception turns against solar power for some reason during the next 25 years, or if the costs of fits/other green schemes become too much for the consumer to bear in a few years and consumers revolt, then the terms of fit agreements will be changed unilaterally, directly or indirectly by the government.
  • Big_Mac_TMMM
    Big_Mac_TMMM Posts: 48 Forumite
    edited 3 July 2011 at 4:43PM
    Hi,

    I'm a bit baffled for the quote that my dad has had from a Solar PV company, called EcoEnergies (who say they are FIT registered), for a system that we would own:
    8x Jinko JKM -195M panels (1.56 KWp)
    IG35+ Frontius Inverter
    Supplied with mounting system, total generation meter and ancillary components
    £8,820.00 Inc VAT

    EcoEnergies are also saying (on a separate letter that the system includes a VO which normally costs £425.00 on its own and that we can knock off £300.00 if we don't want the VO. They don't say the model of the VO.

    I'm wondering if these numbers are good (we had another quote at £10,000 - where the installer would not give all the specs) so this is best deal we got offered.

    Our predicted generation and earnings (from SAP 2009) are:
    Roof pitch: 30 degree roof,
    Orientation: facing south
    Over shading factor: 1 - little or no shading
    Annular Solar Radiation: 1073 kWh/M
    Energy Generation:1339.10 kWh/year
    Current Energy Consumption: £1400.00
    Current Electricity Cost p/kWh: 0.15
    1) Feed in tariff: £579.83
    2) Export tariff: £20.76
    3) Electicity bill savings: £198.19
    4) Electicity bill savings via VO: £57.00
    Annual saving 1 + 2 +3 + 4: £855.78
    Gross 25 year term income: £19,969.39
    Annual ROI: Net 9.70%

    Does this match the sort of savings that other people are being told?

    I've seen other people complaining about installers quoting for unnecessary equipment, but don't know what the VO will do to save cash. I'm not really sure how lowering the voltage will reduce the amount of electricity that appliances use. I'm also not sure if a VO might somehow cause some appliances to not function as usual. (I mean, if this thing was that good, why wouldn't they just bung a big one in the substation, save money for the entire area and then claim some cash back for doing eco-friendly stuff for the area?)

    :think:

    I live in South West London, if anyone else in the area wants to compare this quote with what they have.
    Longtime fan of MSE and the good advice given out here. :hello:
    Mostly looking for free and cheap resources for tabletop RPGs.
  • N9eav
    N9eav Posts: 4,742 Forumite
    mickyduck wrote: »
    Solatricitys quote was double yes DOUBLE the quote I went with in the end. There were less expensive quotes than that as well.

    I guess a lot has to do with quality of the product and how good its performance is over 25 years. I would like to know if there is an independent survey like "Which" or something?????
    NO to pasty tax We won!!!! Just shows that people power works! Don't be apathetic to your cause!
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,064 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler
    Hi,

    I'm a bit baffled for the quote that my dad has had from a Solar PV company, called EcoEnergies (who say they are FIT registered), for a system that we would own:
    8x Jinko JKM -195M panels (1.56 KWp)
    IG35+ Frontius Inverter
    Supplied with mounting system, total generation meter and ancillary components
    £8,820.00 Inc VAT
    EcoEnergies are also saying (on a separate letter that the system includes a VO which normally costs £425.00 on its own and that we can knock off £300.00 if we don't want the VO. They don't say the model of the VO.

    I'm wondering if these numbers are good (we had another quote at £10,000 - where the installer would not give all the specs) so this is best deal we got offered.

    Our predicted generation and earnings (from SAP 2009) are:
    Roof pitch: 30 degree roof,
    Orientation: facing south
    Over shading factor: 1 - little or no shading
    Annular Solar Radiation: 1073 kWh/M
    Energy Generation:1339.10 kWh/year
    Current Energy Consumption: £1400.00
    Current Electricity Cost p/kWh: 0.15
    1) Feed in tariff: £579.83
    2) Export tariff: £20.76
    3) Electicity bill savings: £198.19
    4) Electicity bill savings via VO: £57.00
    Annual saving 1 + 2 +3 + 4: £855.78
    Gross 25 year term income: £!9,969.39
    Annual ROI: Net 9.70%
    Does this match the sort of savings that other people are being told?

    I've seen other people complaining about installers quoting for unnecessary equipment, but don't know what the VO will do to save cash. I'm not really sure how lowering the voltage will reduce the amount of electricity that appliances use. I'm also not sure if a VO might somehow cause some appliances to not function as usual. (I mean, if this thing was that good, why wouldn't they just bung a big one in the substation, save money for the entire area and then claim some cash back for doing eco-friendly stuff for the area?)

    :think:

    I live in South West London, if anyone else in the area wants to compare this quote with what they have.
    Energy Generation:1339.10 kWh/year
    Electicity bill savings: £198.19
    Current Electricity Cost p/kWh: 0.15

    That must be joke of the year!

    You are apparently going to use all(99%) of your generated electricity in the house, and they have priced each kWh at about 50% more than average.

    The EST say £75 pa is typical.

    The VO(voltage optimisation) might be worthwhile if you have 10 fridge freezers! (for those who don't know it lowers the voltage in the house - in simple terms) Machines can run on 220 volts

    In a domestic application £57pa savings is another joke IMO. Unfortunately Ohms law still applies. So your heating will be less powerful etc

    Ask the Energy Saving Trust for their views - most results in 'Google' are firms advertising.
  • Big_Mac_TMMM
    Big_Mac_TMMM Posts: 48 Forumite
    Cardew wrote: »
    That must be joke of the year!

    You are apparently going to use all(99%) of your generated electricity in the house, and they have priced each kWh at about 50% more than average.

    The EST say £75 pa is typical.

    Thanks very much for your help. My dad does not share my trust of the MSE community and does not seem to agree with this being so totally wrong, so I'm asking him to talk to the EST on Monday.

    Meanwhile, I'm going to see if I can work out how to use the Cashback Calculator, so that we can try to reproduce the numbers in the quote.

    I don't suppose that :money: does house visits!:p
    Cardew wrote: »
    The VO(voltage optimisation) might be worthwhile if you have 10 fridge freezers! (for those who don't know it lowers the voltage in the house - in simple terms) Machines can run on 220 volts

    In a domestic application £57pa savings is another joke IMO. Unfortunately Ohms law still applies. So your heating will be less powerful etc

    Ask the Energy Saving Trust for their views - most results in 'Google' are firms advertising.

    I wondered if this item might be the thing that everyone was saying was useless. The idea that our electrical fires will be colder in the winter went down well. :eek:

    Thanks again.
    Longtime fan of MSE and the good advice given out here. :hello:
    Mostly looking for free and cheap resources for tabletop RPGs.
  • Big_Mac_TMMM
    Big_Mac_TMMM Posts: 48 Forumite
    Meanwhile, I'm going to see if I can work out how to use the Cashback Calculator, so that we can try to reproduce the numbers in the quote.

    For some reason, I can't get the Cashback Calculator to do a calculation of exporting 75% of the electricity (and only using 25%) which seems to be what MSE reported was happening for most consumers yesterday. :(

    But the 100% and 50% are both lower figures than the quote we have. I think that is going to convince the old man. :T
    Longtime fan of MSE and the good advice given out here. :hello:
    Mostly looking for free and cheap resources for tabletop RPGs.
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,064 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler


    I wondered if this item might be the thing that everyone was saying was useless.

    You might be getting confused with Power Factor Correction devices that are marketed for domestic properties.

    Those devices will save no money at all - just Google if you want a technical explanation.

    Voltage Optimisation does work for some appliances - those that have a motors mainly as these will work on lower voltages.

    However it will not save on anything that heats - heaters, kettle, oven etc etc - as I said above, Ohms Law applies.

    Regarding savings on your electricity bill. The EST found that a typical figure for 'in house use' was 25% of generated electricty.

    That for you would be 335kWh per year.

    Pricing electricity at 15p/kWh is stupid. Bear in mind that you will pay the standing charge(be it a Daily standing charge or high priced Tier 1 units) regardless of any PV savings.

    The average price of tier 2 units is still below 10p/kWh.

    So using 25% of the generated electricity you would shave £34 a year off your bill. Using 50%, which is probably more realistic with a small system, you will save £68 pa.
  • mysterons
    mysterons Posts: 134 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Which supplier still has products available under 10p per kw please?
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,064 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler
    edited 3 July 2011 at 9:17PM
    mysterons wrote: »
    Which supplier still has products available under 10p per kw please?

    In my area -Midlands- tier 2 prices per kWh(all prices include VAT):

    British Gas - 9.181p plus discounts to reduce it further.

    Co-Op 9.093p

    EDF -9.46p - plus discounts to reduce it further

    EON 9.922p - plus discounts to reduce it further

    OVO 9.71p

    NPower 9.45p - plus discounts to reduce it further

    Others who charge just over 10P e.g. Scottish power @ 10.248p have discounts that will reduce it below 10p.
  • mysterons
    mysterons Posts: 134 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Thanks for that Cardew.
    I assume you're in the West Midlands area as none of those prices apply to my own area which is the East Midlands.
    Also I have E7 so pricing for me is very different. In fact the CO-OP which looks the cheapest on your list comes out dearer for E7 than my current product E.On saveonline 7 :(.
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