Objection to the disciplinary

matavin

Hello,

Im new to these forums but am fond of CAG and was referred over to here.

My friend is about to have a disciplinary at work due to a ''breach of the company discount policy, namely constantly processing discount that exceeds the company limit''.

This in general does sound like a respectively fine disciplinary action. But I as well as the employee believe that they are being victimised and this is one strike or step to removing him from the company.

I work for a BIG company. So the ladder of authority is almost faceless letting us be dealt without notification from head office. We just have shop store managers who deal and make all major and final decisions.

If the disciplinary takes affect i will demand that he appeals. Il explain why now.

The process at work is that before we sell an item ( predominantly computers - no hints to where we work ) we need to take our sales result to the SENIOR FLOOR MANAGER ( SFM ) to inform them of the sale we are about to make and the services / Key performance indicators ( KPI )we have managed to attach to the sale.

If we dont attach many KPIs we get treated like we have done a bad sale even though the company strives on 'solutions for the customer and customer satisfaction and to sell to the customers needs'. We get a quick train there and then on 'over coming customer objections' and then told to go back to the customer to try and sell another KPI or product before the transaction is complete. Usually to do so... the SFM will AUTHORISE us some discount. This amount is usually a £10-15 amount. We never put discount on unless the SFM says so. and ALL sales have to go through them first as he logs the details and product codes for security and for track progress.


The company works on a 1% discount limit of total sales. Usually when an employee cant sell much or add much - and it happens a lot as when dealing with technology a lot of people know what they want already - they are given discount each sale. This discount adds up. The employee which is getting this disciplinary has a discount rate of 2.0%.

We usually sell products ranging from £300-450. So when we get given £10 to push a sale, thats already 2% discount.

He is not the only one to have this figure ( 3-4 other staff members ) but is the only one being punished for it. Other staff members fall around 1.0-1.5 % with the odd 2.0%+ .

Sales that have limited KPIs or we dont hit our targets we are given one to ones and performance reviews and lectured for bad sales EVEN when the customer has explained fully what they want. Bonuses are non existent and working conditions are painful , negative and unappealing.

We believe this is an unfair disciplinary because the employee has no power over his discount. It is the discretion of the SFM to give the discount not the employee. The employee will not give discount or ask for an amount, the SFM will tell them to use X amount to get another KPI. If an employee says 'NO i dont want to use discount' then it looks extremely bad against them. The management want KPIs regardless of customer needs.

Why then should the employee in this sales mentality be the one getting punished when its the management who issue discount in the first place.

I can understand performance reviews but not a disciplinary. This company does have performance programs and the employee has not had one regarding this breach. This is purely performance not behavior issues or a guilty mind cheating the company of high discount rates. we are talking 1-2% discount ( £10-15 ), not £1000s either. At the end of the week each employee could be seeing £90 discount roughly. Its expected and part of our sales process.

TOO LONG DIDNT READ? Staff member being punished for high discount even though discount is given out by management

Il be happy for any reply or steps my friend can take regarding this.

Especially when i ALSO have a 2% discount rate haha.

tizerbelle

You say 3-4 employees have 2% discount levels (including you and your mate) but compared to how many other employees? You omit this fact. How often are stats produced? Is it monthly? How many months on the trot has he been at 2% compared to the others. Before anyone can say he is being picked on, you need to be able to answer these questions. It could be there is a tolerance level for so many months in a quarter/year at 2% and he is constantly exceeding that. Whereas others have a blip and get back to the target level.

jazzyman01

Bottom line is that disciplinary action should be equal. If one person is being singled out for disciplinary action and can demonstrate that this has not been the case for other staff members who have done the same thing to the same level/worse, then it would not be a fair process. He should use this as part of his defence, if it should get to disciplinary action.

It is up to the Company to restate what the requirements are, that any deviation from this going forward will result in disciplinary action. Almost like drawing a line in the sand.

matavin

3-4 with this continuous discount rate, including a more senior member of staff.

another 5 have 1.0 -1.5% with the odd 2% blip

1-2 averaging 1.0%

there are about 12 of us in sales. 75% of the work force are not abiding by the 1.0% rule.

The stats can be displayed daily, weekly and monthly ( every 4 weeks ).

the stats have been expressed over his last 3 periods. Yet his performance has not been addressed and his discount regarding his last 121 review was informal and no action plan was agreed.

We all go over it and they allow us to because we have other staff members on the tills bringing in £10000's which balance out our TOTAL discount rate for the day.

so for a store we keep to 1% but then they look at individuals after the period even though it was store management who gave the discount away.

there is no equality for this disciplinary and he has multiple sheets of performance data to prove this. Yet the company has a set mind and his appeal will still lead to this disciplinary going ahead.

matavin

Further to this i will be acting as the witness on behalf of the employee.

I understand i am not allowed to answer questions on behalf of the employee, but im reading that....

''The role of the companion is, however, limited. The companion is permitted to address the disciplinary or grievance hearing (but notto answer questions on behalf of the employee), and to confer with the worker during the hearing.

Unless the company's policy states otherwise, the employee is not permitted to take a solicitor along to such meetings.

The Acas Code of Practice states that "it is good practice to allow the companion to participate as fully as possible in the hearing, including asking witnesses questions". This goes further than the employer's legal obligations in this respect.''

So i can take notes and ask questions to aid the investigation?

tizerbelle

Fair enough. Does sound like they are out to get him, however you can't appeal a disciplinary before it has happened. You can appeal the outcome but not the actual disciplinary meeting itself.

He needs to go in well prepared with evidence of his stats compared to others; any procedures which show he cannot on his own authorise discounts this high, that it has to be the SFM (yes, they should know this but doesn't hurt to remind them) etc. If they have requested in his letter that he submits copies of any evidence before the hearing, do it or they could say we're not considering that. He does not need to say why he is submitting that evidence, that's for conversation on the day.

And don't go in all "you're out to get me; it's not my fault; but you did this to me; it's not fair" (gets the panel's back up) be considered and non-aggressive/defensive in his responses. I know it is an emotional and difficult time but just explain that he was following protocol, was not aware that the SFM agreed discounts which are out of his control would count against him and could he have extra training/mentoring in achieving and maintaining the target percentage.

tizerbelle

As witness/companion (assuming you are not union rep) you can ask questions if the disciplinary panel allow it. Just because ACAS say it's good practice to, doesn't mean they have to. So at start of hearing do not ask if you can ask questions, if they forget to say you can't ask questions, then you have the opportunity to ask at least one!

Yes you can take notes for your friend and your friend is also entitled to a copy of the notes the employer takes in the meeting - he does not have to wait for them to be typed up (a photocopy at the end of the meeting as they are written up - there isn't actually any rules that states the employers notes have to be typed up). You can comment on views expressed at the hearing (views not questions!!) and if your friend asks you to comment in addition to his answer, you can do. He is allowed to confer with you before he answers.

matavin

Fantasic, what law or act is this all part of - or what can i google to find this.

You are a massive help to this because work are doing their best to alienate us to remove him from his place of work.

tizerbelle

It's all in the ACAS Code of Practice (which is the minimum fair procedure employers should follow - all explained in the Foreword to the Code).

This is supported and explained further in the ACAS Guide to Discipline and Grievances at Work. The guide was issued as a companion document to the code

ohreally

matavin wrote: »

Further to this i will be acting as the witness on behalf of the employee.

I understand i am not allowed to answer questions on behalf of the employee, but im reading that....

''The role of the companion is, however, limited. The companion is permitted to address the disciplinary or grievance hearing (but notto answer questions on behalf of the employee), and to confer with the worker during the hearing.

Unless the company's policy states otherwise, the employee is not permitted to take a solicitor along to such meetings.

The Acas Code of Practice states that "it is good practice to allow the companion to participate as fully as possible in the hearing, including asking witnesses questions". This goes further than the employer's legal obligations in this respect.''

So i can take notes and ask questions to aid the investigation?

Is your capacity a witness or companion? - its difficult to be both.

Your friend needs to go through managements case, point by point and test it thoroughly. Prepare a case statement to take into the hearing where you address managements claims, call everything into question that needs addressed.

Your friend can ask for as many adjournments as necessary to allow discussion on what needs asked or how best to proceed.

matavin

Hello,

sorry i was looking into this all, im acting as companion rather than witness to any allegation