Learning From Scratch!

Debt_Free_Chick

You could make the same claim if your pension was invested in cash, Deemy. It's not the pension ... it's where's it's invested. And cash is an option. As are bonds & property. You are comparing the equities apple with the fixed interest/cash pear.

But I don't think you want to hear .... ;-)

deemy2004

Yes I am ..... But it is the pensions problem that is like Count Dracula going to suck the value of these assets dry.... So does not matter what wrapper it is in the real value is going to suffer :eek:

angelofabundance

This is probably a simplistic view but it seems to me that whatever you invest in ISAs or Pensions they all just put your money into the stock market anyway and charge you for the privelege of going through them. Surely we'd all be better to just put the money straight into stocks and shares ourselves - when it's over the long term.
I know there are some tax advantages, but the cynical side of me thinks if the government are giving something it's for a reason and they just want you to invest in a particular way because it's advantageous to them in some way.

dunstonh

but it seems to me that whatever you invest in ISAs or Pensions they all just put your money into the stock market anyway and charge you for the privelege of going through them.

No. You choose where you put your money. If you don't want it in the stockmarket, then don't put it in the stockmarket. Also, you cannot complain about charges. Charges are very low and barely cover the cost of running the pension.

deemy2004

What about the levy funded by pension funds that is due to come on stream after April 05, that will protect the pensions of workers whose employer goes bust.

Is that open ended and unquantifiable charge not going to impact on pension wrappers more so than non pension wrappers ?

deemy2004

angelofabundance wrote:

I know there are some tax advantages, but the cynical side of me thinks if the government are giving something it's for a reason and they just want you to invest in a particular way because it's advantageous to them in some way.

Its called the minimum income guarantee.... which equates to a pension fund of about £40k.. (in todays money).

Its what I would do if I was in charge of government finances, get pensioners to at least save upto the amount that is paid anyway as a means tested benefit, thus saving the government £2,340 per year per pensioner, or 35 billion per year given a pensioner population of 15 million

dunstonh

Its called the minimum income guarantee.... which equates to a pension fund of about £40k.. (in todays money).

Minimum Income Guarantee was replaced with Pension Credit.

It guarantees that the household income will be at least £105.45pw if single or £160.95pw if there are two of you.

With a single pension being £79.60 (not including any Serps/S2P or graduated pension) this means that the pension income from other means would have to be less than £25.85 to apply. This equates to a pension fund of £15-20k. Not 40k

With two of you, if you both qualify full a state pension in your own rights, then you wont get pension credit anyway. If it is a "Joint" pension then that is £127.25 pw. That is a pension fund of around £27-30k.

By the time you add in SERPS/S2P/Graduated pension, that will wipe out much of the difference for many people so the pension credit can really be ignored for anyone under the age of 50. In addition, there is no guarantee that this Pension credit will remain.

cheerfulcat

Grubby wrote:

Hi,can anyone out there suggest websites that can help educate myself with regard to pensions before I take the plunge and end up with a one that may be totally innappropriate.I am reluctant to go see a financial advisor while totally uneducated in case I get taken advantage of,oo-er missus!
There seems to be such a plethora of advice that I don"t know whether I am coming or going!

Hi, there,

Just to bring this back on topic :-) - I think that what you really need is to educate yourself about *investing*. As others have said, the personal pension is just a wrapper ( the company pension is a different thing, of course ), though it is one that can go horribly wrong regardless of *your* investment policy, unless you use a SIPP; look at Equitable and now, seemingly, Standard Life.

The best of all sites to learn about investing is IMHO the Motley Fool -

http://www.fool.co.uk/help/sitemap.htm

Start with the How to Invest section. Have a really good browse through the discussion boards,too; they are incredibly educational. A few good ones to start with -

Books about Investing

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?mid=9010019&bid=50106

Self Invested Personal Pensions

http://boards.fool.co.uk/messages.asp?mid=9132711&bid=51267

Inside Plastic Tortoise

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=6197846


Finally, some stuff about pensions

http://www.fool.co.uk/pensions/pensions.htm?ref=leftnav

HTH

Cheerfulcat

dunstonh

I think it is very unfair to be looking at Standard Life in the same way as Equitable Life. They may not be the strongest insurance company but there are hundreds of insurance companies in a weaker situation.

cheerfulcat

Hi, DD,

A lot of people stuck with Standard Life might not agree with you...


http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=8291037

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=6130660

Not so much the strength or otherwise of the company, more the treatment of policyholders. I think it's a valid comparison. But I'm happy to lump *all* lifecos in together as a disaster area for investors :-)

Cheerfulcat ( disclosure - fingers burnt by SL, nearly so by EL )