Working without a written contract

liney

In practially (!) every instance apart from Discrimination, Health and Safety or Whistleblowing, if your boss within the first 12 months decides he would rather have someone else work for him instead of you, you're up the creek without a paddle.

Contract/Statement of particulars, ulimately provide the same information, and the OP is entitled to receive this within 2 months of starting work. I see that the company are basically saying, we will always abide by the Statutory Minimum requirements, but that isn't good enough to protect them further down the line at an ET. It's in the best interests of both parties to for the employer to provide a written statement/contract.

SHIPSHAPE

liney wrote: »

In practially (!) every instance apart from Discrimination, Health and Safety or Whistleblowing, if your boss within the first 12 months decides he would rather have someone else work for him instead of you, you're up the creek without a paddle.

Oh right, so you obviously know the contract terms of every worker in England & Wales (Scotland & N.Ireland) do you?

There is repeatedly the general statement on this board that 'one is unable to do anything within the first year.'

This is simply untrue.

This line is repeatedly used even as a first response to a new thread with no attempt to find out the circumstances of the problem posed.



Contract/Statement of particulars, ulimately provide the same information,

Where did you get this from?

Every job I have had with a contract has provided much more within the contract than what Particulars provide.

Indeed, those contracts I have had were some dozen pages compared to a page of Particulars which details stautory basics.

Tell me, how does one page contain the same information that is needed on a dozen? Neat trick.



and the OP is entitled to receive this within 2 months of starting work.

Yes, and?

Read the thread title again! He is asking about a written contract!!

This doesn't need to be provided whatsoever!!!!!




I see that the company are basically saying, we will always abide by the Statutory Minimum requirements, but that isn't good enough to protect them further down the line at an ET. It's in the best interests of both parties to for the employer to provide a written statement/contract.



Rubbish.

A company that is purely set up to make some quick money/run by unscrupulous bosses, which many are, would not want to be tied down with written contracts which is far easier for the employee to refer to should litigation begin.

Which brings us neatly to the whole topic, and massive difference, between Employment Particulars (which must be provided) and written contracts (which need not).

Maybe if you knew the significant difference you could have answered the OP's question instead of talking, essentially, nonsense.

OP, there is no obligation for the employer to provide you with a written contract (which is what you asked in your title thread), however, they do need to provide Particulars of Employment which can be very basic and covers just the essential statutory information.

However, you appear happy with that.

I would be concerned though that a company wouldn't provide me with a more detailed written contract.

Any good employer would not have a problem with that.

getmore4less

One of the reasons emplyment legislation requires these minimum particulars is because many contract come into existence without this basics information.

Please provide your source that employment contracts contain basic info.

Also, provide your source that proves legislation exsists because one of the reasons is that contracts contain nothing but basics.

You seem to be confused, I am not saying contracts contain nothing but basics I am saying they may not contain the basic information hence the need for written particulars that do contain this basic information.

The original requirement for written terms was first introduced by the Contracts and Employment act 1963 and at that time they were required to be in a written contracts.

parliment was told by the minister of labour at the time

this is an important requirement. It gives the worker for the first time a right to a clear understanding of the terms upon which he is employed. He will know as an individual where he stands, and should any question arise over the terms on which he works he will have definite evidence which can be used in a court of law. Also, he has a right to have the terms of his contract which affect him most closely set down in black and white

It is the subsiquent legislation that has consolodated various other employment issues that have resulted in the current form of particulars of employments as laid out in the 1996 act and amendments.

Should a written contract of employment include the minimum requirements of the legislation that that is sufficient to meet legilation so the requirement to produce additional particulars is not required. When the written particulars are required is where the written contract fails to provide the information and that is one reason the legislation exists in it's current form.

getmore4less

Every job I have had with a contract has provided much more within the contract than what Particulars provide.

Indeed, those contracts I have had were some dozen pages compared to a page of Particulars which details stautory basics.

Tell me, how does one page contain the same information that is needed on a dozen? Neat trick

Often it is the other way round the contract is short containing information specific to the individual like pay and refers all other particulars and terms to the the various standing company docs.

Flyboy152

Googlewhacker wrote: »

At least they seem to know what the employment legislation is,

The hell they do.

at the end of the day for the first year a contract is not worth the paper it is written on anyway.

What???????

Just make sure before you go into the job you know what your pay is, what holidays you get, what the sick pay is and what other benefits there maybe.

Which are included in a contract, or at the very least a written statement of particulars of employment

liney

"Oh right, so you obviously know the contract terms of every worker in England & Wales (Scotland & N.Ireland) do you?"


Discrimination, Whistle Blowing, and Health and Safety are the reasons for which you could bring an unfair dismissable case to an ET during the first 12 months of employment. http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/rights-of-workers/dismissal/unfair-dismissal.shtml


I dont have time to faff about with the rest of the quote that you basterdized by writing within the text making it impossible to re-quote.

liney

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Which are included in a contract, or at the very least a written statement of particulars of employment

They are also covered by Statutory Law, which the company have quoted.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/openpopup?type=ONEOFFPAGE&itemId=1075225338
And just to clarify Business Links view on Contract/Written particulars.

Flyboy152

liney wrote: »

They are also covered by Statutory Law, which the company have quoted.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/openpopup?type=ONEOFFPAGE&itemId=1075225338
And just to clarify Business Links view on Contract/Written particulars.

No they are not. The law does not dictate how many days an employee has for annual holiday, paid or unpaid sick leave, or how much the employee gets paid.

mexicanhat

Emm well I am so glad I asked now !:)

I understand your various view points. I am not convinced that I will be getting the written particulars of employment. I think I will just drop that into conversation next time I call my employer- to- be.

I really do think that he has not had a problem before and that is why there isn't one. But I am a bit wary about it though. I have made a list of the things that I will put in the letter of acceptance so that I am effectively confirming some of the details that have been outlined verbally.

Flyboy152

mexicanhat wrote: »

Emm well I am so glad I asked now !:)

I understand your various view points. I am not convinced that I will be getting the written particulars of employment. I think I will just drop that into conversation next time I call my employer- to- be.

I really do think that he has not had a problem before and that is why there isn't one. But I am a bit wary about it though. I have made a list of the things that I will put in the letter of acceptance so that I am effectively confirming some of the details that have been outlined verbally.

Personally...I'd wait until I ws already in there, to start asking. It's a lot more difficult to ask someone to leave, than to tell them not to bother. On top of which, you'll get to know how things really are when you are there.