'Should we change the general election voting system?' poll discussion

angry

Fascinating - I think it's fair to say that most of the people posting on this thread (2/3?) are pro AV, and maybe 1/3 are pro-FPTP (correct me if you disagree). Yet the vote results are remaining incredibly close to a 50:50 split!

What does this mean?
Maybe it means the pro-AV people are more passionate about it than the pro-FPTP people.
Could this have an impact on the referendum result? The people who care about it are more likely to vote than those who don't feel as strongly...

grahamm

DJ_Mike wrote: »

I hasten to remind you that you don't vote for the proportion of MPs in parliament, you vote for a single MP in your consituency. I love it when I hear all this !!!!!!!! in the media about parties who get in when only 35% of the country voted for them. Oddly enough, the reason the Labour party had 56% of MPs in parliament is because 56% of the constiencies around the country returned Labour MPs!

Please tell me exactly how many MPs from any Party were elected with over 50% of the votes in their constituency. I think you'll find that the answer is "precious few if indeed any".

FPTP is broken at all levels, Local and National, MPs are getting elected to their constituencies *without* a majority of the votes and then going to form governments *without* a majority of the votes but *with* a majority of the seats.

My vote for no is not because I am pushing FPTP as a better system than AV - it isn't. I am voting no because AV isn't any better either.

You are arguing that we should stick with FPTP because if we go for AV it will "stagnate electoral reform", I disagree, sticking with FPTP will give a "mandate" to future Governments to say "Well we had a referendum on this, the people didn't want reform, there's no point in asking them again in a few years" meaning we'll most likely be stuck with FPTP for the next couple of decades at least.

AV isn't perfect by any means, I accept that, but it is at least a step in the right direction.

Don't be fooled into the reform the parties are trying to have you believe this is. Even Nick Clegg dismissed AV as pathetic.

I think the expression you're looking for is "a miserable compromise" and I agree with him, it is, but there was no way the Tories were ever going to allow a referendum on PR so Clegg went for what he could get them to agree to.

It's not great, but it's much, much better than nothing.

MSE_Martin

Has anyone been campaigning for people to vote F-P-T-P

Normally our votes are very consistent - the pattern at the start maintains. Here with the first few hundred people it was two to one for AV, then suddenly FPTP came back and now its 50-50.

That is a rather unusual pattern to say the least. I wonder if any group has been asking people to vote in the poll?

Has anyone seen it?

centurian

I have voted in two Referenda and both have left me feeling extremely cynical regarding their value:-

1st We were asked whether Britain should join “The Common Market”.

The question should have been rephrased to read:-
Do you wish to become a citizen of a state of the European Union, donating to their funding, supporting their currency, and obeying their laws?

Although I voted no, on the basis that we would be entering a trading agreement which excluded the people who supported and fought alongside us in World War 2 such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada in favour of Europe, enough people were purported to have voted yes to allow the politicians to take us into the EU and receive large sums of money for doing so.

2nd We were asked to choose between having one Unitarian Council for the County or two Councils which would replace the then current system of various District/Borough Councils?
The referendum did not include the alternative of leaving things the way they were!
The Unitarian Council was promoted by politicians as being more economical saving Council Tax payers thousands of pounds. They got their way once again, however none of the “savings” ever materialised and Council Tax continued and continues to rise every year.
The Unitarian Council is now attempting to shed its responsibilities for services onto the smaller, democratically elected town and parish councils. The members feel they are being asked to accept responsibilities, for which they have had no training, on an unpaid and voluntary basis (Perhaps this is what the “Big Society” means). The parish/town councillors are now busy resigning and abandoning ship at a rate of knots!
If there is to be a referendum on voting, then it should include the 3rd option of Proportional Representation otherwise it will not reflect the views of the general public or give them exactly what they want.

[Deleted User]

MSE_Martin wrote: »

Has anyone been campaigning for people to vote F-P-T-P

Normally our votes are very consistent - the pattern at the start maintains. Here with the first few hundred people it was two to one for AV, then suddenly FPTP came back and now its 50-50.

That is a rather unusual pattern to say the least. I wonder if any group has been asking people to vote in the poll?

Has anyone seen it?

It did get Tweeted, which is how I ended up back here.

[Deleted User]

centurian wrote: »

I have voted in two Referenda and both have left me feeling extremely cynical regarding their value:-
{...}
If there is to be a referendum on voting, then it should include the 3rd option of Proportional Representation otherwise it will not reflect the views of the general public or give them exactly what they want.

That's a fair point, but politics is politics. To say the Tories are unenthusiastic about voting reform might be regarded as a gross understatement. That we're being offered a referendum on anything at all to do with electoral reform could be considered a minor miracle.

rpb

Freaky!

2390 vs 2395 when I voted!

49.95% vs 50.05% with nearly five thousand votes cast!

DJ_Mike

grahamm wrote: »

AV isn't perfect by any means, I accept that, but it is at least a step in the right direction.

If, by right direction, you mean MPs being returned with far less people voting for them as their first preference than under FPTP (where there is only one preference), then I completely agree.

rickbonar

I voted for AV and think that although FPTP simpler to understand organise and count it doesn't represent the majority of people.

I know a lot of people simply don't vote at all so some form of PR is the most ( to use a buzzword) - "democratic".

I'm not sure AV is the best system for the people but it may be the best for the tories or Labour hence why they have allowed this to be put forward as a system.

Look this may be our one and only opportunity to change an unfair system devised by Toffs and aristocracy centuries ago and it needs updating so everyone in society has some better proportioned representation.

I thought previous government like the last Labour regime started well intentioned and sincere and ended up corrupt and in utter comtempt & scornful of their electors. A million miles and years away from the ideals of the original founders.

The Conservatives were and still are the party of rich and privileged but appear these days to actually be more in tune with the public than the current batch of labour shadow cabinet donkeys and !!!!!!!!!!s.

I voted UKIP last election and that was about party available that I could sincerely support but sadly Labour seem more like a radical mix f******* and conmen and good old fashioned commies.

rickbonar

Why doesn't the word !!!!!!!!!! appear?????