Advice Please- Employment Law.

zzzLazyDaisy

dpassmore wrote: »

I was an employer, I would need to be convinced that my workplace or the workload was not a factor in the illness(es) before releasing that person.

The thing is, they have been through the warnings procedure. This is the point where any relevant investigations/enquiries would normally take place. It is also the employee's opportunity to raise any relevant facts that the employer should be aware of and take into account.

OP says her sister had a history of taking a couple of days off here and there for various unrelated and relatively minor illnesses. Unless there was something to indicate that workplace stress/environment was a factor, or there is some reason why this should already be in the employer's knowledge, the employer can't be expected to investigate. It is up to the employee to help herself and raise these issues.

Edit - also bear in mind that absences under a week only require self-certification. Frequent self certificated absences often raise more concern than longer absences with a medical certificate, simply because they are unregulated and open to abuse (not saying this was the case here).

Jeff_Bridges_hair

dpassmore wrote: »

Which is fine - provided they are informed on how to 'manage their health' and they get appropriate professional medical advice - not threats from HR or management which could add stress to the list of ailments.

I wonder how many SME's offer persistent absentees advice on how to 'manage their health' or do they just take the easy option of 'showing them the door' when they are suffering recurring ilnesses without even offfering occupational or general 'health management'

As I alluded to earlier, it is a difficult situation for both parties and I can sympathise with the OP's sister - particularly when the reason for leaving her job may be asked by a future employer.

As an employer myself i do tell staff who have large amounts of absence what they should be doing to combat their health and tell them to visit their doctor. We also have Bupa who we refer people to which costs us money as we like to look after our staff but if the staff member is not really doing anything for themselves to then the only route is the door im afraid.

Sickness in the workplace costs an awful amount of money and people need to take personal responsibility for their own health to you know and not rely on the company to do it all for them..

And in this case as with many others if your on a FWW then there is something underlying which its plain to see and its also plain to see that the OPS friend has not really taken any steps herself to find out why they are getting ill so often.

dickydonkin

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

The thing is, they have been through the warnings procedure. This is the point where any relevant investigations/enquiries would normally take place. It is also the employee's opportunity to raise any relevant facts that the employer should be aware of and take into account.

OP says her sister had a history of taking a couple of days off here and there for various unrelated and relatively minor illnesses. Unless there was something to indicate that workplace stress/environment was a factor, or there is some reason why this should already be in the employer's knowledge, the employer can't be expected to investigate. It is up to the employee to help herself and raise these issues.

Edit - also bear in mind that absences under a week only require self-certification. Frequent self certificated absences often raise more concern than longer absences with a medical certificate, simply because they are unregulated and open to abuse (not saying this was the case here).

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

As an employer myself i do tell staff who have large amounts of absence what they should be doing to combat their health and tell them to visit their doctor. We also have Bupa who we refer people to which costs us money as we like to look after our staff but if the staff member is not really doing anything for themselves to then the only route is the door im afraid.

Sickness in the workplace costs an awful amount of money and people need to take personal responsibility for their own health to you know and not rely on the company to do it all for them..

And in this case as with many others if your on a FWW then there is something underlying which its plain to see and its also plain to see that the OPS friend has not really taken any steps herself to find out why they are getting ill so often.

I am totally in agreement with most of the content of the above posts.

I need to clarify however, that despite a reference being made about the OP's sister in my last post, my comments were generic in respect of making sure that aspects of employment are not causing ill health and ensuring that everything has been considered prior to dismissal - or 'showing the door' which is hardly a sympathetic term of phrase.

Nonetheless, it is a difficult situation and I hope that the OP's sister gets herself sorted medically and finds a new job in the not too distant future.

KayJ066

Thanks all, She is going to appeal, I'm going to help her write the letter, does anybody know where i can get a good template from? I've never had to write one before.

Also, she found some documents saying that if a staff member has mitigating circs, the Final Written should be extended and if they don't then they will be dismissed.

Surely being signed off by the doctor, for slipping over on the ice (on the way to work btw) while the weather was rubbish is mitigating circs? If not then what is?

Jeff_Bridges_hair

.............

KayJ066

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

.............

Why the .........?

williacg

KayJ066 wrote: »

Thanks all, She is going to appeal, I'm going to help her write the letter, does anybody know where i can get a good template from? I've never had to write one before.

Also, she found some documents saying that if a staff member has mitigating circs, the Final Written should be extended and if they don't then they will be dismissed.

Surely being signed off by the doctor, for slipping over on the ice (on the way to work btw) while the weather was rubbish is mitigating circs? If not then what is?

I think that it might possibly have more to do with the bouts of infections and bugs she was prone to before the slipping on the ice episode, which maybe the straw that broke the camel's back.

zzzLazyDaisy

KayJ066 wrote: »

Surely being signed off by the doctor, for slipping over on the ice (on the way to work btw) while the weather was rubbish is mitigating circs? If not then what is?

Being signed off by a doctor (for whatever reason) wouldn't normally be viewed as mitigating circumstances on its own, although it is of course worth raising it, on the basis that the nature of the final absence was different in nature (an injury) from the earlier absences (repeated infections) and therefore unlikely to be repeated.

Mitigating circumstances is normally something relating to the employee's own situation which sheds a different light on the situation.

So some examples might be:

Someone undergoing chemotherapy is likely to have more absences than other employees

Someone who has a nervous breakdown after being widowed suddenly and unexpectedly may have have more absences

Someone who has been sexually harassed at work may be off with work related stress

If someone has an injury at work and has a lot of time off as a result, this is likely to be taken into account

Someone with an underlying auto-immune disease such as Lupus may be more prone to picking up infections

There may be lots of other forms of mitigating circumstances, these are just a few examples that I have come across in real life.

But in order for the employer to take these factors into account, they must be made aware of them.

I will post a draft appeal letter for you in a few moments

Daisy

KayJ066

Thanks Daisy, you've been more than helpful

Jeff_Bridges_hair

KayJ066 wrote: »

Why the .........?

Because i didnt want you to think i was being mean..