Accused of gross misconduct - advice please.

nikki2804

Hi, I need a little bit of advice about a problem with my employer.

I was signed off from January 12th 2011 to January 27th 2011 by the doctor with a stomach bug. Called my employers HR line each day of my self certified sickness and kept in contact with my own manager.

On day 8, I called in again and advised HR that I had been unable to get a doctors appointment for that day however I had one for the next day. My buddy manager phoned my house (my home number was not on my file -not purposely but I didn't have a landline when I moved then forgot to update it however they had my mobile number-she had taken it from my partners file which was a breach of data protection) and I got the usual 20 questions about my sickness. She requested that I called her the next day when I had been to the doctors.

I did this and advised her that I had been issued a sickline and this had me signed off until the 27th. I also advised her what the doctor had prescribed me. My buddy manager then told me that she would be coming to my house to pick up my sick line. This surprised me as it was not usual practise, they normally ask for them to be posted in.

Anyway, she came to the house and picked up - no problems.

I was then on annual leave on the 29th and 30th of January from my main job but had shifts in my second job. The first shifts since before Christmas Eve. Went to work there as usual.

Returned to my main job the following Wednesday (2nd February) and had my back to work. Everything seemed fine.

Went into work on Friday and was taken into an 'informal' meeting with no prior warning and no option to take a witness. The manager dealing with this told me that the file had just been thrown on her desk and it was probably because she didn't know me well that she was doing the meeting.

Anyway this meeting was handled very badly and after 5 minutes I actually had to ask why I was in there. It turns out that someone had called the internal compliance line and stated that they had seen me working while signed off sick. I was asked all of these questions which I answered truthfully (I was not working, my first shift at my 2nd job was 29th January). I was then told that if I was found to be lying it was fraud, my contract would be terminated and I would be charged. I was basically told to jump before I was pushed but obvioulsy as I had no witness I cannot prove this.

Anyway, I know I did not work between the dates that I was off sick. My 2nd employer is happy to provide rotas and cctv footage to show that I wasn't in.I suppose my questions are:

Should I have been allowed a witness if the meeting was informal? I was under the impression that I wasn't but others have said that I should have been.

If I am pulled into another meeting can I take representation? If there is noone available can I reschedule the meeting?

Is there a timescale they have to adhere to when dealing with this?

What is the normal practise for dealing with this?

Apparently only 4 people (my manager, the manager who took the meeting, the ops manager and the senior manager) know about this however a few other staff know. So the management need to keep this quiet? (I am mortified that I have been accused of this so the less that know the better) Or can they tell anyone they want?

I asked all these questions and was not given an answer. I spoke to my own manager (who was very unhappy that she was not the one to take the meeting) and she has tried to find out from our operations manager but even still we're not sure where I stand. It was mentioned that it may not even be investigated? Surely if it possible fraud then they cannot leave me hanging?

Just for the record, my manager is aware of my second job and it is noted in my file that it is ok for me to have it.

I realise that this is war and peace but I am (hopefully) just including the full story. Any advice is greatfully appreciated.

lost-away

you should get some illegal advice or go to citizen advice bureau seems serious

im in the similar situations where all other staff members know whats going and about the outcome too yet i dont,

i think employers accused us when they want to get rid of employers.


wish you all the luck i hope the outcome is in you favor .

StrongWork

lost-away wrote: »

you should get some illegal advice

Best tip I've heard on this forum so far.

AnonymousForObviousReason

There are some employment lawyers knocking about the site, hopefully one of them will drop in. But legal representation isn't a bad idea if you can afford it (a number of people have stated that the first 1/2 hour can be free and sometimes you get it with household insurance), a union is another option if you're a member.

Forget Data protection issue with phone (it's not really), forget the visit to the home (although if sensible should have taken a witness) as neither are really unreasonable.

One vital bit of information is the length of service you've had at the company, under a year and you have few rights. If under a year, I'd just provide the evidence from your second place of employment (with a signed letter from them confirming you didn't work between the dates in question). Then try to swallow the injustice and drop it.

Over a year and you're on firmer ground. But still get the evidence if not to much of a problem to your and/or your other employer.

What does your staff handbook say about the correct disciplinary procedure?
There is no defined legal requirements for things like timings and meeting structures, it's all under reasonableness - but there are good practices aimed to stop an employee taking a company to the cleaners in an employment tribunal.

If you are pulled into another meeting yes you can request another person of your choosing to come along (if allowed in your disciplinary procedures which I should think most do) and if they are not around you can schedule it for a more appropriate time but it needs to be reasonable (within a few working days ideally).

The informal interview - sounds like a shambles. What is the relationship of the Manager to you in terms of company structure? Was it someone from HR or at least someone in your direct chain of command? Did they actually write something down and have they provided you with notes of the meeting?

If you're about to accuse a worker of something and threaten them with dismissal and legal proceedings it's a formal meeting. Personally my procedures are along the lines of; Book a meeting with the employee in a private office with someone from HR, informed them what the accusation was, state possible outcomes, explained that the next meeting they are allowed to bring representation from a union or a friend for support and then set the meeting for about a week from that date, make sure they know where the company policy on disciplinary is, state that they could see myself or HR if they had any further questions, ask if they had any questions and finally provide them that day (or next day latest) a written copy of what was discussed for them to read and confirm they agree.

I'd personally think about making a formal complaint but think how this could affect your future at the company and what you want to get out of this process (I'd do it but that's not a reason for you to do so).

Check your company complaints procedure (you don't make a complaint about people not following procedures and then not do it yourself). Basically your a letter would state how the companies policies weren't followed, how interview was (mis)handled, the uncertainty it left you with for all this time, the inappropriateness of threats that you resign or police would be involved (assuming that's how you interpreted the meeting).

Good luck.

CFC

You are not entitled to have a representative with you for an investigatory hearing or an informal meeting, if the issue goes formal you should be sent a letter advising you of the date of the hearing, the allegations, and your right to have a representative with you in the meeting. So yes you may be called to another meeting. Best practice is to advise as soon as practicable if an issue is going to disciplinary, you may be advised verbally that you will be invited but there must be a formal invite to the meeting so you have notice to prepare.

McKneff

StrongWork wrote: »

Best tip I've heard on this forum so far.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::T

milliemonster

Did you actually resume to work in your first job though after your sick note finished before your annual leave on 29th and 30th? if not, your first employer would presume you were still off sick and I think this is where they are coming from, even though your sick note finished on 27th, you were required to call your employer to let them know you were resuming to annual leave first before then working during your leave in your second job.

Gordon_Hose

Are you a member of a union? If not, join up, they can provide advice and representation should this go formal.

zzzLazyDaisy

How long have you worked for this company? You need at least 12 month for full protection under the law.

As someone else has said, you are not entitled to be accompanied to an investigatory hearing. If it escalates to a disciplinary then you should come back here and get further information. But it may not go any further - the point of an investigatory meeting is to investigate the complaint that has been received. You have given an explanation and this may be accepted.

Also, forget the phone call, it is not a DPA issue.

maninthestreet

OP - surely you can easily prove that you did not work at your 2nd job on the date/dates you are accused of doing so??

nikki2804

I have worked for this employer for 5 years.

I phoned my manager and reported fit for work on the 28th. I have a text stating that she updated this with HR.

I can prove that I wasn't working there, thats not a problem.

I don't have a staff handbook. My contract doesn't mention anything about it either.

I was a member of the union but ended this when I went part time. Looks like I'll be joining up again.