Employment Law question

Savvy_Sue

AlfonsoM wrote: »

There is a quote in one of the e-mails from the MD "we need to find a way of sacking him, I'll leave this bit to you". He was sacked a week later for an issue that at worse he could have received a warning. He had a totally clean disciplanary record. There is no dobut in my mind the MD and the manager constructed a case to dismiss him and the e-mail is very damming.

but how did you see this email? if it wasn't sent to you, it's not going to be easy to introduce it as evidence. Even if it was sent to you, then you forwarding it to him may be a disciplinary matter, especially if they want to make it one.

RedSoleShoes

AlfonsoM wrote: »

There is a quote in one of the e-mails from the MD "we need to find a way of sacking him, I'll leave this bit to you". He was sacked a week later for an issue that at worse he could have received a warning.

This is still hard to comment on as it is rather unusual that a company would keep someone for 12 years and then suddenly cook up some way of getting rid. What exactly did they sack him for? If, as you say, the issue he was sacked over is so flimsy, then he probably doesn't even need that email as evidence.

Without knowing who the email was from and to, and also how you came to see it, it is difficult to know whether it would get you in trouble for disclosing it.

Sambucus_Nigra

AlfonsoM wrote: »

There is a quote in one of the e-mails from the MD "we need to find a way of sacking him, I'll leave this bit to you". He was sacked a week later for an issue that at worse he could have received a warning. He had a totally clean disciplanary record. There is no dobut in my mind the MD and the manager constructed a case to dismiss him and the e-mail is very damming.

But he DID do it? Did they make him do it? Does it have implications that you cannot know about and thus the harsh response?

zzzLazyDaisy

If he worked for them for 12 years, and had a clean disciplinary record, the only way he could be dismissed lawfully is for an incident of gross misconduct.

If, as you say, the incident only warranted a warning at worst, then he should have no difficulty persuading the tribunal that there was no fair reason for dismissal.

Also, a week from the e-mail telling the manager to find a way to dismiss him, to his actual dismissal, is very tight and I'd say there is a good possibility that they may have failed to carry out a fair procedure.

In those circumstances he probably doesn't need the e-mail anyway.

But I have to say that you only know what he has told you, and we only know what you have told us. Once the evidence starts to come out, things often turn out to be less black and white than they seem at first sight.

jobbingmusician

FWIW, here is my suggestion. It's the sort of thing we do all the time on GIOL to prove our case to bookies!

Take a screenshot of the emails. (Get email on screen, press shift + print screen).
Paste this into Paint (start>programs>accessories>paint)
Use the Image>crop facility to cut out any information on the screen which would identify you.
Print
Send to your friend.

Any use?

System

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Any use?

Yep I would think that would definitely seal his fate. If he hadn't done anything sackable before then this would definitely put a nail in his coffin.

Sambucus_Nigra

!!!!!! wrote: »

Yep I would think that would definitely seal his fate. If he hadn't done anything sackable before then this would definitely put a nail in his coffin.

Esp if the friend prints it out with the OP's personal email address at the top!

SarEl

LittleVoice wrote: »

SarEl wrote: »

That would only ensure that the e-mail disappeared without a trace. And no evidence that it had ever existed. Think about it - DPA requests only work if (a) the employer is honest and (b) you know the material exists. How do you request something that you have never seen and don't know exists (unless someone inside told you - and that person is prepared to hold their hand up to knowing it exists and act as a witness as to its existence); and what do you do when they don't disclose it - claim psychic abilities with the IT?/QUOTE]

Quite difficult to erase - it's not just a case of hitting the delete button.
It is not unreasonable for a dismissed employee to believe there would be emails on the system which mention them. I expect there are emails on my employer's email system which mention me by name but I don't know what they say.

Yes I understand that - but tribunals cannot send in the forensic squad! There is no independant asessor for SAR's. I am sure that there are e-mails that mention you by name on your employers system that you don't know about. But if you sent in a SAR - you still don't know about them, and if the employer doesn't tell you about them - you still don'r know about them! So how do you know that they didn't send you all the e-mails, if you don't know the e-mails exist to start off with?

DVardysShadow

Take the screenshot now, while you can. It leaves more options if you have secured it.

Strider590

AlfonsoM wrote: »

Can these e-mails be used as evidence and how can this be done without me losing my job?

If the computers in question were to get a mystery virus and suddenly fail completely and the emails were to find their way onto an open internet forum, then who's to blame?

But to be honest if I don't see how you can see these emails without access to either the mail server OR the individual workstations????
And if this is so easy, then it's their own fault for being so lazy with their security measures!