Malthusianism and denialism [or 'nothing-to-see-here'-ism]

hcb42

Milarky wrote: »

Oh, and I hadn't even raised the question which Malthus [1798] probably didn't have in mind - how in a grossly unequal world [circa 2010], it's usually someone else who gets a bullet in the neck and provided that 'elbow room' for us lucky ones having the debate this afternoon?

I agree. It is far too easy to blame the 'population' as the problem, when what there is is inequality in distribution of scarce resources and under capitalism the rich will continue to get richer while the true poor of the world continue to get exploited. Plus, if the Mathusians are correct, then the solution to the ever growing population is not quite so obvious :eek: How can an American or European kid legally consume say five times the resources of an African child by luck of where they were born...

CLAPTON

StevieJ wrote: »

I like these facts, someone once wrote that 75% of the people born in the history of the Earth are alive today. I bet some people actually believe this (probably the Malthusians) What a ridiculous statement that was.

interesting
what is the true figure?

Milarky

The Estimate (for 2002) is circa 106 billion births to that date and 5.8%

Number who have ever been born 106,456,367,669
World population in mid-2002 6,215,000,000
Percent of those ever born who are living in 2002 5.8


http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

Has anybody actually watched the video yet? It's well worth the hour or so of your time.

Kohoutek

Milarky wrote: »

Oh, and I hadn't even raised the question which Malthus [1798] probably didn't have in mind - how in a grossly unequal world [circa 2010], it's usually someone else who gets a bullet in the neck and provided that 'elbow room' for us lucky ones having the debate this afternoon?

Part of that 'ingenuity' which we are told will keep making the problem go away includes all forms of exploitation - including one man of another.

Actually Malthus himself believed that growing population rates would lead to an oversupply of labour, which would lead to lower wages.

helencbradshaw wrote:

It is far too easy to blame the 'population' as the problem, when what there is is inequality in distribution of scarce resources and under capitalism the rich will continue to get richer while the true poor of the world continue to get exploited.

Population is the problem. If you have a finite resource base, in the long run (i.e. post peak oil etc) a growing population will make everyone poorer in aggregate. It's just as you point out, resources are not distributed equally at the moment. Neither capitalism or communism recognise that absolute scarcity of resources is an inevitable result of a growing population, so I don't see how global communism rather than capitalism would solve this problem. Personally, I like to see the world do away with moronic religious dogma that greatly exacerbates unsustainable population trends...

StevieJ

CLAPTON wrote: »

interesting
what is the true figure?

Between 5 and 10 % probably much closer to 5 than 10.

StevieJ

poppingjay wrote: »

Also in past when man had to adapt to changes in his environment, we didn't have such a massive population addicted to oil. Maybe it's easier for people to bury their heads in the sand on this issue.... move along folks to your next shopping experience.

We could always shop for this

A British company has invented artificial petrol that emits no greenhouse gases and could cost as little as 19p per litre at the pumps

.

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/31012011/36/19p-litre-petrol-development-0.html

michaels

Would that be the tar sand...... or the shale gas?

poppingjay wrote: »

Also in past when man had to adapt to changes in his environment, we didn't have such a massive population addicted to oil. Maybe it's easier for people to bury their heads in the sand on this issue.... move along folks to your next shopping experience.

Mr_Mumble

E=MC^2 explains why we should never run out energy.

Horizontal fracking just gave us another 150 years of natural gas.

Projects such as ITER & DEMO should meet long-term energy needs.

The world population is expected to top out at around 9-10 billion around 2050 and then fall from there. Considering US farms yield five times those in Russia, the huge parts of Africa that are untapped and even the ability to substitute meat for softs in emergencies there is no reason for anyone to go hungry. When people do go hungry it's because of poor logistics.

The intelligence or stupidity of the human race will determine where it goes from here.

diable

Looks like rents are on the way up then.................

CLAPTON

StevieJ wrote: »

Between 5 and 10 % probably much closer to 5 than 10.

still an absolutely amazing percentage.. 5 to 10% of all the people I'm related to are still alive today
maybe a bit worrying