Whispergen boiler thing?

Julysea

I read about this boiler in an article and wondered if anyone has any opinions/experiences of it?

Ken68

Looks to be an engine run by gas that heats the house and also provides electricity. BUT you also need the traditional electricity supply. AND no price.
Supposed to save ABOUT £150 a year. The size of a dishwasher, but survey needed.

Ken68

Remember reading a leaflet from Powergen , my supplier at the time, YEARS ago, about Whispergen. Couldn't have caught on.
If it didn't need a traditional electric supply it might catch on.
Don't know about the cost of running petrol Honda type generators ,as used in remote areas, but the capital cost nowadays is less than £100, certainly ideal for emergencies.

Julysea

Yes, I read about it on the powergen site, but can't seem to find anyone who actually has one or knows anyone who has or who can advise on how 'green' they really are, if at all.

Ken68

Something here July.,.........from Google Groups.....
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2006-43,GGLD:en&q=whispergen

and images.....http://images.google.co.uk/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2006-43,GGLD:en&q=whispergen&sa=N&tab=gi

fergee

Hi,

I enquired about the whispergen unit over a year ago, it was £3000 fitted. This is not that bad a price and it will save £150 of your utility bills per annum. It would probably be best if you were thinking of replacing an old boiler, as this unit is designed for boiler replacement. Boiler replacement will probably cost £1500 upwards (for a decent condensing combi, potterton or worcester etc) so payback would be 10 years.

Powergen withdrew it from their product offering about 6 months ago and I'm not sure if they have restored it as a product.

http://www.powergen.co.uk/Business/Technology/Technology-Whispergen.htm

aboard_epsilon

E-ON AND THE GOVERNMENT.
They are dragging their heals over this .......Ive phoned up E-on and they know didley squat

But whispergen UK have given me a bit more info.
they say the the government are introducing new tariff system for these boilers in April...
Goes something like this
15 pence per unit that you sell back to the grid and an additional 15 pence incentive on top ..
So therefor 30 pence per unit generated
and payback time of less than 3.5 years
the boilers will be either sold outright to you or leased
In normal operation they will have a service life of 30,000 hours ..which because they are used mostly in the winter .and will be operational for 8 hours a day .
This will give them a total lifespan of between 10 and 15 years.
the boilers need a hot water tank ....so if you have a combi boiler .you will have to purchase the tank as an extra
whispergen are also high btu and is either on or off......and are suited best to an old house or large house to get the max efficency of the idea.


All the best.....markj

Davegeo

Having looked into this myself, I have come to the conclusion that there is very little benefit to having one of these boilers.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that a normal A rated boiler is about 90-odd % efficient. The Whispergen boiler is also 90-odd % efficient in the energy it gets from your gas, but out of that 90-odd % a certain amount (20% or so) is used to create electricity.
Therefore although you save on your electricity bill because you are drawing less from the grid, you are using more gas in order to do so, so your gas bills will increase!
In addition to this I would have thought that the process of turning gas into electricity on such a small scale could not possibly be as efficient as in a power station, so you will not be any more eco friendly!

- Davegeo

aboard_epsilon

well, with talk of 30 pence a unit being given back to you .

after 3.5 years you are making money.

if like me you don't have an existing gas boiler ...
you are practically getting the boiler for nothing..once 3.5 years has elapsed

average price of electricity per kWh is 12.5 pence thats strait with no fixed charge

average price of gas is 3.87 per kWh standard rate

as i understand it ...it is a generator that uses its surplus heat for your heating...please explain where the 20 percent comes from ..because I'm not fully converted to this yet ..and like to know the ins and outs and everyones thoughts on these things

ECO FRIENDLY ..HMMMM

most of the govs ideas on saving energy are flawed in some way ..

eg putting wind turbines everywhere .......but having to back them up with nuclear ,coal and gas to the fullest extent for when the winds not blowing..which sometimes is quite a lot.

so i say jump on and enjoy the ride....if you are being paid for it .

like to hear all the pros and cons of this ..things i havnt thought about etc ..because so far i have a blinkered nice view of it .

all the best.markj

mech_2

Davegeo wrote: »

In addition to this I would have thought that the process of turning gas into electricity on such a small scale could not possibly be as efficient as in a power station, so you will not be any more eco friendly!

Its efficiency at generating electricity isn't crucial because all the waste heat is used to heat the home, which you would have done anyway. So the electricity is "for free" in eco terms. In practice, if it exports 1000kWh a year of electricity (for example) at 90% efficiency, that'll burn 1111kWh a year more of gas, but gas is something like 3p a unit, whereas apparently you'll get 30p a unit back from microgeneration, so the economic balance is over 26p in your favour per unit you export. The CO2 saving works because a gas power station generates at somewhere around 50% efficiency, dumping waste heat into the countryside, and then you burn some more gas to heat your home. Whereas electricity from the Whispergen is effectively generated at 90% efficiency when you consider the waste heat is all usefully used for heating which would have happened anyway.

If there's a catch with this kind of thing, it's probably that the payback is longer than is claimed. Multiply 3.5 by 2 to be on the safe side and it's 7 years. Still, it could be worse.

aboard_epsilon

wow look at the prices of the spares ..im having second thoughts now.

This is the dinky ..small boat version spares price list

www.onboardenergy.com/acatalog/Whispergen_Spares.html

just look at the prices of the spares ....should you need them .all your savings go out of the window.....i'll bet the domestic versions spare prices are even more expensive....plus you have to pay a certified gas fitter £50 per hour to fart about with it.

all the best.markj