Disciplinary Investigation - I want to scream!

Aliasaila

This is a follow on from my first thread but I feel it merits a new thread as the goal posts have changed slightly.

1st investigation meeting was on 14th January 2011.
2nd meeting was scheduled for 17th January 2011.

17th January came and went and although both managers involved were in the building the meeting just never happened. On the 24th January the personnel manager caught me in the corridor and promised to "catch up later" (never happened).

Today I had a mini breakdown in my department and my manager went upstairs to see if he could work out what was happening. He was told that someone would catch me up at some point.

After my shift I nipped into the office to pass a message onto one of the admin team and my personnel manager caught me and said I shouldn't be worrying and that the reason for them not having the meeting before was that the other manager has been off sick for 2 days. I wasn't for having it and pointed out that I have a pre-existing medical condition that they are making worse because of the stress and asked her how she would feel if someone threatened to sack you and then left you to stew for 11 days. She just kept repeating that the other manager had been off for 2 days with swine flu and she thought i would have heard (erm, no).

So I called my union (all newly signed up) and the lady I spoke to said I have the option of raising a grievance. She went on to say that I should see if they do anything on Thursday (apparently they might have a meeting then) and take it from there.

The union rep seems to think that they have moved on from the initial issue (misuse in December) and they are now clutching at straws to find something else (the problems in October that were never raised then).

Anyways. My questions here are:
1. Is it a good idea to raise a grievance when I have a live disciplinary being investigated?
2. If I do raise a grievance who do I raise it with?

Googlewhacker

As its only 2 days away I'd wait, you've made your opinion very clear to the bosses that they have been very shabby and if they don't do anything thursday then raise the grievance.

Torry_Quine

This is rather early to get worried about not yet having a disciplinary meeting. In my experience these things usually take a lot longer than this. Usually weeks if not months before meetings are held and decisions made. If the manager is off sick there is not much they can do. The fact that they haven't suspended you means that you aren't being penalised in any way although I appreciate that you are obviously worried about what will happen. Have you joined the union since the incident as I would be very surprised at a union covering you for an earlier incident?

zzzLazyDaisy

Keep a diary of all conversations, comments, events, who said what, where, when and how, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't raise a grievance at the moment.

Why? Because it will focus their minds and make them get on with it.

Why is that a bad thing? Well, the longer they continue to mess you about, the longer you continue to work normally, the less likely it is that a decision to dismiss you would be viewed as reasonable response.

I should say that I haven't read your previous thread, but from your comment that you've been threatened with the sack, I am surmising the employer is looking at this as a potential gross misconduct issue?

Re who do you raise a grievance with - you should have a copy of the company's disciplinary and grievance procedures (they may be in an employee hand book) it will tell you there who to raise the grievance with.

Also remember that you are entitled to be accompanied at any disciplinary or grievance meeting by your trade union representative (you say that you have recently joined the union - are they going to accompany you to the meeting, or are they just giving advice as this is a pre-existing issue?)

If they do bounce a meeting on you at short notice, you should say that you'd like someone to be present with you (TU rep or colleague).

Frankly, from what you say, if you can tough it out, you've a reasonable prospect of giving them enough rope to hang themselves with.

(Please note - the above comments are just that. You should discuss your options and decisions with your trade union, as that is what they are there for).

Aliasaila

Yes, it's alleged gross misconduct.

I'm more annoyed that company guidelines are that anyone who is accused of GM should be suspended on full pay during any investigation, I'm sure (and GMB rep agrees) that if I was sat at home on full pay they would have dealt with this by now! I just want them to tell me what's happening either way. Taking 2 minutes to tell me that the manager is sick wouldn't kill anyone, apparently he's been off since Friday but how did this stop him meeting with me the Monday before that? (when he coughed his swine flu all over my dinner!)

The company disciplinary book doesn't give details of who to address your grievance to if your grievance is against the personnel manager! GMB rep said try sending it to head office as they will send it back to the correct person to deal with.

GMB said that they will represent me at any disciplinary meetings but not at investigations since they can't intervene on your behalf then.

zzzLazyDaisy

Aliasaila wrote: »

GMB said that they will represent me at any disciplinary meetings but not at investigations since they can't intervene on your behalf then.

I see, sorry I understood that you'd already got to the stage of a disciplinary hearing, and that had been adjourned for further investigations to take place.

One other point - you mentioned that you have a pre-existing medical condition that is being made worse by the stress. Some illnesses are viewed as disabilities in law - if you think this might apply to your condition, you must make sure that they have this noted on their records (a passing comment is likely to be dismissed and it will be difficult to prove later that you ever brought it to their attention, should you ever need to do so).

Finally, I would remove the name of your employer from your posts - you never know who might be reading this.

Daisy

Aliasaila

My medical condition is a disability (epilepsy) and I declared it and my learning difficulties on the application for the job. I filled out a risk assessment too before I started working so they definitely know that there's a medical history.

So today, went into work. At about 10am the line manager who is investigating swings by and asks which of the department managers are in (answer neither, the one who should be in has swine flu). He walks off. At 12.30 he walks past me in a corridor and asks what time I finish at so I told him.

10 mins after my shift finished I was at the clocking machine and he asked what time I was working tomorrow, told him and he said he'd catch up with me at lunch. If he does that it will be a full 2 weeks since the initial investigation started, also if he wanted to talk to me tomorrow shouldn't he have come and told me this before I finished and not when he happened to walk past me with me standing with a face like thunder?

GMB advised me on Tuesday to submit a grievance if the meeting didn't happen today, obviously it never but should I wait and see what happens tomorrow and submit over the weekend? A fortnight looks like an unreasonable time scale compared to 13 days. If I'm honest I'm about 60% sure that tomorrows meeting wont happen as there is a big event on in the morning and things will be just too busy.

Torry_Quine

Aliasaila wrote: »

My medical condition is a disability (epilepsy) and I declared it and my learning difficulties on the application for the job. I filled out a risk assessment too before I started working so they definitely know that there's a medical history.


So today, went into work. At about 10am the line manager who is investigating swings by and asks which of the department managers are in (answer neither, the one who should be in has swine flu). He walks off. At 12.30 he walks past me in a corridor and asks what time I finish at so I told him.

10 mins after my shift finished I was at the clocking machine and he asked what time I was working tomorrow, told him and he said he'd catch up with me at lunch. If he does that it will be a full 2 weeks since the initial investigation started, also if he wanted to talk to me tomorrow shouldn't he have come and told me this before I finished and not when he happened to walk past me with me standing with a face like thunder?

GMB advised me on Tuesday to submit a grievance if the meeting didn't happen today, obviously it never but should I wait and see what happens tomorrow and submit over the weekend? A fortnight looks like an unreasonable time scale compared to 13 days. If I'm honest I'm about 60% sure that tomorrows meeting wont happen as there is a big event on in the morning and things will be just too busy.

Do you mean learning disability rather than difficulty - there is a difference but people tend to use the terms indiscriminately.

It is only two weeks since the incident so don't stress that the initial meeting hasn't happened yet. They should communicate better but in practice this often doesn't happen.

Also when did you join the GMB as they can't help if you only joined since this happened?

Aliasaila

I joined after the initial meeting but the advisor on the phone said that as the actual disciplinary isn't under way yet they will be able to help if it comes to that (spoke to a woman in Falkirk if that helps?).

What's frustrating is that they've adjourned this meeting and gave me another date, ignored that and have been avoiding me since. Also in my work place these things happen over the course of days, one colleague who was interviewed on Monday was sacked by Friday for GM earlier this year. That was an investigation, a disciplinary meeting and then the 2nd part of the meeting. I just find it strange that it happens quickly for everyone else but not in my case.

And I do mean learning difficulties (I think), I have a form of dyslexia which is linked to neurological impairement that causes the epilepsy.

Torry_Quine

Aliasaila wrote: »

I joined after the initial meeting but the advisor on the phone said that as the actual disciplinary isn't under way yet they will be able to help if it comes to that (spoke to a woman in Falkirk if that helps?).

What's frustrating is that they've adjourned this meeting and gave me another date, ignored that and have been avoiding me since. Also in my work place these things happen over the course of days, one colleague who was interviewed on Monday was sacked by Friday for GM earlier this year. That was an investigation, a disciplinary meeting and then the 2nd part of the meeting. I just find it strange that it happens quickly for everyone else but not in my case.

And I do mean learning difficulties (I think), I have a form of dyslexia which is linked to neurological impairement that causes the epilepsy.

The union thing really surprises me as the person I know wasn't a union member and contacted several including the GMB as soon as they were told about an incident. They were told by all of them no union would help at all for an incident which had already happened. That was several months ago and they are still waiting to see if it will go to a disciplinary meeting. That is why I said that these things often take time. Your work seem quicker which is definitely better for everyone. I go by the phrase justice delayed is justice denied.

Yes dyslexia is a learning difficulty. I am very impressed as I would never have realised, the quality of your posts is very good.

Hope that the meeting goes ahead soon and you get a satisfactory resolution

Sambucus_Nigra

Does your procedures for discipline and grievance state that for gross misconduct, you should be suspended on full pay?

I can't see how just dropping by and saying you will possibly catch up at lunch constitutes any sort of disciplinary meeting - in any shape or form.