Lets have a discussion..... what would you do in this situation?

midget_gems

Right, i am going to put this scenario here out of sheer interest. This particular scenario is something that has happened to me in the past (a little while ago) and is pretty much done and dusted now. There is no action to be taken IRL in regards to this, i am simply posting it to see what kind of discussion it will generate. I will post all the relevant details i can remember, and answer any questions on it where i can. But anyway.....here goes.


I used to work for a very large retailer (who will go unnamed in this post). I was a simple salesperson on the shop floor on a part time contract at 20 hours per week, but often used to work 30-35 hours "overtime". The employment started in October 2007 and ended in September 2009 (a few days shy of 2 years).

I was subject to a company policy sales target of selling a certain percentage of two items per week, 5% of <x> and 8% of <y>. This means that for my total sales of a week, at least 5% had to be <x> and 8% had to be <y>. A year through my employment, <x> was raised to 6% and <y> to 10%.

Over the course of the employment, i would consistantly underperform on <x> and consistantly overperform on <y>. <x> varied from 0% to 3-5% and <y> varied between 15-30% (i was notably excellent at this, even at one point winning a regional prize for the most sold in a 3 month period). Eventually, it was officially brought up that i was underperforming on <x>, and i would have to take action or the proper disciplinary procedure would be initiated and followed.

First step of the procedure, i was taken off the floor for a period of time and asked why i thought i wasnt hitting targets, and then agree on what further training i should be given to help me improve. once training was given i had one month to prove i could hit the targets. All training agreed was given and at the end of the month i did not hit the target. I was compared to a (the only) member of staff (in that branch) who consistantly hit both targets each week to prove it was not an unreasonable target.

Second step initiated, I was given a formal disciplinary and my target lowered to 4%. If this target was not hit for the month the third step of the procedure would be followed, dismissal. I did not hit this target, and thus i was dismissed.

However, alongside this procedure being performed, there was another member of staff who was following it with me. He did not hit his targets and was underperforming worse than me (he consistantly failed on both <x> and <y>). He entered into the second stage of the procedure and they simply did not take it any further. He was not dismissed and is still working there today, still underperforming and not hitting both targets (whereas i was only not hitting one).

Secondly, a few months after i had been dismissed, i have learned that the collegue i was compared against for reason of proving it was an reasonably achievable target, was infact forced to resign because he was caught fraudulently using customers details into selling and cancelling these items once the customer had left the store, so his sales figures were falsified.

Should i have been kept on and/or fought a case of unfair dismissal?

Other useful information - I was 22-24 years of age during my employment.
I started as a christmas temp and didnt officially have an employment contract until Janurary 2008.
The target <y> i consistently overachieved on was at a level that covered profit that would have been made if there wasnt a deficit of target <x>
i had been mystery shopped 3 times in my employment, each time scoring over 95% and once 100%. minimum acceptable score is 85%. I had also recieved a personal handwritten letter from a customer who had been extremely satisfied and impressed with my knowledge and customer service. (i was one of the few who was actually educated in my field).



Now again, please remember that i am only posting this out of sheer curiosity. I have since found myself a new job (a much more respectable field... debt advice!) which is also much higher paid, So i have absolutley NO intention of taking any action in regards to this. I am still very good friends with my old collegues and will not name and shame them, although i might name and shame the company if i hear of similar fraudulent practices by other branches. I have not mentioned working for these people in any of my posting history so you will not find out who it is unless i say so. I have worked for a few large electrical retailers in my time.

Googlewhacker

I would have thought proving how you were treated in respect of another employee would have been very hard and if they followed their procedures to the book then you would struggle to claim unfair dismissal.

midget_gems

They did follow thier procedures to the book, but only for me.

There was another employee in identical situation to me, who likewise did not improve and they simply stopped taking it further. Bear in mind, all of this had came at a time when they were trying to get rid of as many staff as possible due to financial difficulties, and the only difference between me and the other collegue following was the procedure is that he had been there for more than two years. It has been suggested to me that passing the two year mark would allow me to have qualified for redundancy pay, should they have had to let me go under different circumstances.

fuse

Sounds like a lovely place to work. I once worked for a large electrical retailer with simialr sales/insurance targets etc and have been through something similar. I have always been good at selling things that i actualy have a knowledge of and believe in i.e. i would always be honest and sell the product i thought was the best value, most reliable etc and was always very honest with my customers, for which the were in the vast majority very happy with. What i didnt believe in was the insurance etc that comes with the items or the "promotional items", but would use all the usual pressure selling techniques you are trained on (admitadly half heartedly).

I was never disciplined etc over it, but did have to endure "retaining" a few times. What you descibe of people falsifying sales was always common practice amoung the sales staff and was known about by our managers, who would sometimes take you aside and quietly tell you how to improve your sales figures etc.

This was the worst job i ever had and actualy felt bad about being disshonest and left. Given the scenario you gave above i would have been looking elsewhere for a job and moving on ASAP. IMHO its not worth going after these people as they usualy the most slimey people about. In my experience the whole company was populated by people like that and usualy the more devious and disshonest you were the higher up the company you went. Usualy if they want you out there is nothing you can do as they will manufacture situations for their own ends etc, its just not worth the hassle - move on find something better, which is what you did!

bluenoseam

Sounds like a well known high street retailer i used to work for too - warranties on two different types of product we sold & loyalty cards!

They've followed everything by the book for you, which in essence means you don't have recourse unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was a reason they specifically highlighted your poor performance. Now that in itself is not a slight on you - i have no doubt you actually did everything you were contractually obliged to do, but unfortunately it's something which happens. Certain people are good at disguising their weaknesses and keeping favour with management - that's just how things go!

Look at it this way, you're not in a position at what, 25/6 to ditch a job which by the sounds of it was pretty pressurised when it really shouldn't have been & move onto a better situation. Difficult at the moment i'll grant you, but long term, you'll probably see this as a good thing!

midget_gems

dont get me wrong, im very happy with the outcome. I simply allowed the dismissal to go ahead at the earliest time possible (the managers said they would delay it as much as possible so i could get another months pay out of the company, my managers were awesome and i still talk to them to this day).

I wouldn't go anywhere near being employed by them again, i now work for a VERY well known and revered advice giving national charity now and have been for the last year, working to a (nice) salary rather than a wage that was less than half of what im on now, and i love the job. let alone i only have to work 10am - 4pm now! The reason i posted it, is that ive actually brought this up within my place of work (we have specialists who actually deal with employment problems on a daily basis as thier job) and it has garnered quite an argument between the staff around me!

Emmzi

it sounds unfair, but I would have simply moved on; probably before they dismissed me, if I could have. There weren't megabucks involved so not worth the stress.

getmore4less

Well if the only targets were just x% and Y% of totals sales.

Stop selling other stuff to get the % of each up to the desired levels

As you sold more of X you could sell more other stuff some of which needed to be Y to keep thta % right as well.

mountainofdebt

tbh this is exactly why I hate shopping for electrical items in the real world.

I know that when I grab hold of an assistant after I have made my mind up to buy something, I know that I'm going to have to face the hard sell with regards warranty etc and when I say no, I know I'm potentially playing God with their jobs.

I would rather the assistant was judged on the service given to me rather than how much they make for the store.

As for the OP's dilemma, I think at some point in the future I would have to drop it into the conversation with her former managers that the rouge member of staff actually did her a favour - but said in a friendly sort of way of course

midget_gems

do you think there would be any case for fighting unfair dismissal though? the targets that were meant to be proven tobe reachable were only reached artificially and fraudulently, and the procedure followed for dismissal may have been policy, but it is certainly selective about who they put through the procedure, as evidenced by a worse-performing member of staff who is still working there to this day, and still underperforming.

mountainofdebt

Not sure about the time limits for unfair dismissal - you may have gone over the limit.

If you're not, then I guess it depends on how much you think it will be worth to go through the hassle, especially as it seems to have been a blesisng in disguise, potentially ruining friendships.