Help - Annual Leave Entitleme

DVardysShadow

enidx wrote: »

erm, no

I get 27 days + 8 pro rata, but the hours that I work (and I do actually work on a BH) on a BH are taken off this, so say last year, I worked 41 hours on BH over the year which was more than my actual BH entitlement.

So i started the year with a bookable leave of 129 hours.

Everytime i work a bank holiday I an eligiable to claim double time and toil

I am working 6 out of the 9 bank holidays.

So although ultimately at the end of the year I may have had the correct leave, I actually start the year with my entitlement less any hours being works on the BH.

If I was a day time worker - I would have the leave less the hours I was due to work on the bank holidays leaving me a balance of bookable leave - I would also NOT have to work the bank holidays.

We have been told that we cannot have the bank holiday entitlement and accrue toil for working bank holidays even tho the policys state you are entitled to both.

They changed the way they worked it out about 3 years ago up until then it was fine

As you work 6 of 9 Bank Holidays, I assume you are moved off 6 ordinary shifts. That is your TOIL

enidx wrote: »

please also note that my rostered hours never actually fall on a BH, but, they move me off one of my normal shifts to provide cover

Exactly. I think you are only entitled to TOIL if you work the Bank Holiday in addition to your normal hours.

MrRedundant

I assume your working days are flexible if they do this?
Sadly whilst its not ideal for you they are simply being prudent and using the workforce they can on BH's at no extra cost rather than paying people extra.

Quite unusual to find a local authority/nhs/similar so effective and efficient.

enidx

the hours I work on the bank holidays are the hours that i would have been working on the shift they have moved me from so over the 2 week rota I am working the same amount of hours.

I am on a 2 week rota and my rotad days do not fall on any bank holidays. I work the same days over those 2 weeks and have done for at least 6 years. They decided that they needed to provide cover - they used to let us volunteer for the BH shifts but when those of us who were not on those days refused to do them because they refused to pay us the double time and toil, yet those who were rotad to work were entitled to it.

I am also working 6 of the 9 bank holidays, my full time colleague is only working 7 of them and a collegue who works 18 hours a week has got 8 of them, the later 2's normal working hours fall on a monday, but again they are moved about.

DVardysShadow

enidx wrote: »

the hours I work on the bank holidays are the hours that i would have been working on the shift they have moved me from so over the 2 week rota I am working the same amount of hours.

I am on a 2 week rota and my rotad days do not fall on any bank holidays. I work the same days over those 2 weeks and have done for at least 6 years. They decided that they needed to provide cover - they used to let us volunteer for the BH shifts but when those of us who were not on those days refused to do them because they refused to pay us the double time and toil, yet those who were rotad to work were entitled to it.

I am also working 6 of the 9 bank holidays, my full time colleague is only working 7 of them and a collegue who works 18 hours a week has got 8 of them, the later 2's normal working hours fall on a monday, but again they are moved about.

Simple question:

Do you work Bank Holidays in addition to your normal shift pattern or in substitution?

• Addition. You are entitled to TOIL
• Substitution. You are not entitled to TOIL

You also get a Bank Holiday allowance.

enidx

yes but i dont get the bank holiday allowance

they work out your annual leave then add up the amount of bank holidays you will be working and deduct this from your annual leave allowance so:

say entitled to 168 hours annual leave and working 40 hours over the bank holiday, they take the 40 hours off = leave entitlement of 128 hours.

then when you have worked the hours on the bank holiday, they give you "toil" - their decription - which then has to be taken in the month you accrue it and you are not allowed to accrue more than 7 hours.

so you have 128 hours bookable leave and have to take the toil within the month you accrue it making it very unflexible.

The hours I have to work on a BH are moved from another shift.

DVardysShadow

In your position, I would want the BH allowance and not the TOIL.

Savvy_Sue

if they are wording your contract differently to other p/t staff, you may have a case to argue, but I can't get my head round it tonight (and I am scarred from trying to explain to staff working their hours over 4 days why they get fewer BHs than staff working the same hours over 5 - each of your BHs is worth more than one of mine, innit!)

getmore4less

Am I entitled to the Public holiday entitlement and toil for working the bank holiday ??

Not normaly


Full time staff get 27 days + bank holidays. if they work a bank holiday they get TOIL(another days holiday because they did not get the BH that was in the allowance) and double time.

AIUI any allocation of time off can be considered as holiday to meet any statutory holiday requirements allthough they may use the term TOIL it is still "holiday"

Part time get pro rata for the holidays and the BH so what they should do is not give TOIL for working the BH just the double time the BH allowance covers the prorata time.

Now for what they are actualy doing the TOIL rules fall within the laws that allows an employer to dictate when holidays are taken so you are not geting penalized on the total amount of holiday just on when it can be taken. And as far as I can see the relevent notice is being given since you know the dates allready.

You may be able to use the part time discrimination rules since you are having relatively more holidays fixed than a full time worker. they should limit the TOIL to the number of BH prorata that you have and leave the rest as flexable days.


One thing you can watch out for is the total holidays in weeks(5.6), if the BH shift tend to be longer than the normal shifts then depending on how they pay out the other hours you may be short on actual days off.
This will be quite hard to detect and sort out.


(BTW what happens to BH that are at the end of the month, how can the TOIL be used up in that month? April there are 3 BH in the last week.)

If they were at any time giving part timers a BH allowance AND TOIL for working a BH then they were giving too much holiday


It would be a lot simpler if they just put every one on to a set holiday allowance of the equivilent of the 27+BH so 35 (prorata for part timers). Pay double time for BH and if you take one off you use a days holiday.