Private parking clampers

sardarji

Plenty of good advice elsewhere on how to respond to private parking tickets (basically: ignore them--see the thread on Shoal Enforcement Ltd). BUT what do you do when you come back after leaving your car for 15 minutes and find it already CLAMPED???

That's what Shoal Enforcement (reminds me of what sharks do in those Attenborough documentaries) have taken to doing in Petersfield, Hampshire. You can't ignore a clamp--and their "release fee" is (wait for it...) £150!!!

Can anyone tell me:

1) Are they legally entitled to clamp at all after such a brief time? In effect they are sequestering your property. Can the law really let them do so, on the mere strength of the alleged "contract" that their notices claim you to have agreed to by parking where you shouldn't

2) Even if the clamping is legal, is such an extortionate "fee" legal? For all practical purposes they're demanding money with menaces, the amount being dictated by themselves.

3) On top, they threaten to tow your car away--presumably if you don't pay up, but certainly at their sole and arbitrary decision--and that'll cost you (they dictate this price too) a modest £275, guv. More extortion. Are they legally entitled to remove your property just like that?

4) And if you change your mind but they have already called the tow truck (ie, if they SAY they have), they'll charge £100 for cancelling it, even if it has never left its garage. Can that fee be legal, for what may cost them no more than a couple of two-minute phone calls?

5) Oh, and just by the way, if your car is worth less than their total charges they threaten to seize it and sell it. Could that conceivably be legal, even if all their charges are?

6) Has any victim of these sharks the faintest hope of getting his money back? How? (Don't all shout at once.)

Kite2010

1 - They can clamp after a few minutes if they so wished, some clampers block you into a parking space so that you can't escape. There was a firm in the town near where I live whom would wait until someone goes into a piece of land not necessary knowing it was private land and they couldn't park but found the way out blocked by the clamper in the van whom would clamp them without even allowing them to get out the car-park.
2 - Sadly yes, but most judges will laugh at the fees and crush them.
3 - Sue jointly the clampers and the landowners, the clampers ignore CCJs, whereas the landowners normally has assets.
4 - Sadly yes, some clampers even go as far as "calling" a tow-truck as an excuse to hike the price up.

If you get clamped, pay by credit card and write "paid under protest" on the receipt if you can, and get a charge-back.

Roll on the clamper ban

esmerobbo

It seems the only regulation these Gorillas need is a SIA license and their free to rob. They must have this license visible at all times for you to see. As above the charges would be deemed excessive and a Judge would order in your favour in most cases.

Yes they do steal cars, and get away with it!

sardarji

Many thanks, Kite, but sorry, you commented before I had decided to edit and enlarge my query. If you'd care to re-edit your reply, you'd help other readers who didn't see my original. Thank you for your help.

Kite2010

Sorry I'm a fast replier

1) Are they legally entitled to clamp at all after such a brief time? In effect they are sequestering your property. Can the law really let them do so, on the mere strength of the alleged "contract" that their notices claim you to have agreed to by parking where you shouldn't

Sadly they are entitled to clamp, even if you were trying to get out of the car-park, they will probably try clamping a delivery van if they wanted to.

2) Even if the clamping is legal, is such an extortionate "fee" legal? For all practical purposes they're demanding money with menaces, the amount being dictated by themselves.

Nope, hence why so many people get the money back when they sue in court.

3) On top, they threaten to tow your car away--presumably if you don't pay up, but certainly at their sole and arbitrary decision--and that'll cost you (they dictate this price too) a modest £275, guv. More extortion. Are they legally entitled to remove your property just like that?

Sadly yes as it's on private land and they have a 'contract' with the landowner to tow

4) And if you change your mind but they have already called the tow truck (ie, if they SAY they have), they'll charge £100 for cancelling it, even if it has never left its garage. Can that fee be legal, for what may cost them no more than a couple of two-minute phone calls?

I bet most of the time the tow truck isn't even called, just lies.

5) Oh, and just by the way, if your car is worth less than their total charges they threaten to seize it and sell it. Could that conceivably be legal, even if all their charges are?

If they wanted to, there was a story from LBS in Essex where they sold the car to get back some of the charges "owed"

6) Has any victim of these sharks the faintest hope of getting his money back? How? (Don't all shout at once.)

Suing both the clampers & landowners, high chance of winning in court as they will have hell trying to justify the costs.

peter_the_piper

Get pics of all signs, views of the signs from where you parked, views as you go in(park elsewhere so to not give them the opportunity again)
You will need these for any moneyclaim you have from the landowner and clampers. Take copies of the tickets, receipts etc.

sardarji

So at last the government really is bringing in a bill to ban the clamping extortionists. So it says. But watch out for the details--this is a highly organised, highly profitable industry.

Just Google a bit for its past meetings with the Security Industry Authority, its supposed 'regulators' (don't make me laugh. But amazingly, the minutes of at least two meetings are on display--read now while stocks last), and you'll see how pally it feels with them. The cowboys are even talking of going to law to prevent this ban on their supposed "freedom" to extort.

Incidentally, a lawyer friend has given me an answer to one of the questions I asked opening this discussion. Can they seize your vehicle to pay their so-called fees? He tells me: no. Not even if this shameless threat is written up on their notice, as it is by Shoal Enforcement, and no doubt by other members of the trade.

peter_the_piper

We know of cases where the clamper, obviously liking the car, clamps and tows. The same day they re-register it with DVLA and sell it. All illegal but the police will not do anything about it, quoting "its a civil matter Sir". Hopefully todays bill does not get watered down as I suspect it might.

esmerobbo

I would not worry about the SIA it seems they are in line for the boot soon! The only regulatory power they had was to withdraw the clamper's licence, if they had one! This didn't stop the boss's just the one clamper!

As for it being a highly organised and profitable organisation, it is not as organised and as big as the Pub/Club/Restaurant business. How much have these business's lost since the no smoking ban was introduced?

I don't think anyone has any sympathy at all for them! They had their chance and blew it! As for Trevor Whitehouse threatening to sue the Government I hope he does and losses heavily wiping out his ill-gotten gains!

sardarji

to Peter_the_Piper

You plainly know much more about this than I do. But if they clamp-and-tow (translation: first step to theft, wh I wouldn't for a second put past them), how do they reregister the car if they haven't got its original registration documents? Unless they have the complete apparatus of professional car thieves set up to provide phoney documents and the like.

It sounds even worse than I thought. Shoal Enfarcement threaten to tow yr car and sell it if it's worth less than their accumulated "fees" (why choose that criterion I can't think, you'd guess they'd want ones that are worth more...). Even that I'd have thought contrary to criminal law, let alone what you describe. Certainly if the police in either case say "It's a civil matter, Sir", that must surely be untrue.

Merely curious on this point. No doubt they'll now step up their dubious activites and extortionate so-called fees to make a bit more hay before the sun belatedly goes down

esmerobbo

LBS clamped removed and re registered the same day!

http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/echo/8675130.Clampers%3Cu%3E%3C/u%3Ehad_right_to_sell_Scott_s_car_/?action=complain&cid=8937110