Unpaid Training Session - Is It Compulsory?

StudentOfBusiness

chrisotherwise wrote: »

Isn't it? Are you sure?

I would suggest that you start as you mean to go on. If you start off arguing about the minutae of your contract, the exact number of hours you are due in lieu, and exactly what you are and are not entitled to, you will find it hard to leave that behind you when you actually start your "career".

I have dealt with many project managers in recent years. The ones who got the job (and lasted) were those who understood people and garnered their respect, who were prepared to go the extra mile to get a project finished (often in their own time), and who put the interests of their team first. Compared to those things, qualifications and knowing what "strategic drift" is are relatively unimportant.

Go to the training session. Listen. Watch the people around you. See how they interact. Learn from it. Don't worry about a couple of hours "lieu". I'm sure you'll eventually be glad you did.

Ok, to give you an example of a few other things that go on, I shall explain...

The managers have no respect from ANY of the employees, they use us, get us to sign petty little made up contracts to say we will hand out guides to customers, they cant even produce a rota, as it gets took down, and changed a day before a shift and we arent given notice, imagine turning up for 11-6 shift and find out they had changed it the day before with no phonecall, nothing to an 9am-8pm shift, annoying to say the least.

As a full-time student obviously my priorities lie in my education, not that I'm not committed to work, I have dropped plans at the last minute for them plenty of times and helped out, but anyway over christmas it was busy (most retailers dealt with it well though), here, we were REQUIRED to work 6 days out of 7 during christmas week, with them asking us to take a 5 minute break on an 8 hour shift. And they wonder where staff motivation is... When youve got customers waiting and your dealing with customers non-stop, group after group, it is NOT ideal to sell in, as the customer already has their mind made up... Lack of sales staff is the worst bit about this...

I worked 50 hours in Christmas week, as well as having 4 assignments to be in the 1st week in January and an exam to revise for, believe me it was hard, but I did it, and that's a skill in itself.

The area in which the stored is situated in does not help at all, as people around here ALWAYS ask for discount, and every single one has their own opinions on warranties, 90+% of these are negative. In tough times, where people already have home insurance, why would they pay out £6-£10 a month on a warranty?

Especially, as budget is tight, we staff find out AFTER we worked 6 out of 7 that we told we would be paid for, that one of them wouldn't be paid, and that is also owed in lieu...as they dont have the budget...

All this lieu time is due to there not being enough sales colleagues, yet having 4 managers, for a store that is not even that big, so I wonder where all the budget goes, 4 managers and we still have problems like this from BASIC tasks of management, not hard at all. I would like to say that the managers arent "qualified" managers, they are people who have worked for the company from sales, and worked up... The only training they have had is a company course, which focuses on selling.

So, I do believe yes that good management skills through education are a lot more important that you made out... And, what I said does apply as the managers and the company as a whole are clearly out of phase with the environment... which figures why sales are down across the board (reported in the news).

hcb42

If they are not paying you for a whole day as well, I think that is a bit off, given it was for retail sales at busiest time of year, and perhaps I would take that up with HR or HO if you cannot resolve it locally.

But I do wonder why you state managers are not "qualified" managers. Most people start "at the bottom" and work their way up, especially in retail - and you dont need an MBA to be a good manager

whitewing

Around your likely age, I could spend more hours debating whether to do something than the time it took to actually do. Pick your battles. You can still have respect for your colleagues without agreeing on the way they deal with situations. Put your thinking into your course, and learn to enjoy your job for the skills it does give you that you can take forward in your life.
Even if sales are down across the board, there can be exceptions and great attitude makes all the difference. Your company is training you. Use it as an opportunity to refocus. It's a good thing, if you can let it be.

StudentOfBusiness

whitewing wrote: »

Around your likely age, I could spend more hours debating whether to do something than the time it took to actually do. Pick your battles. You can still have respect for your colleagues without agreeing on the way they deal with situations. Put your thinking into your course, and learn to enjoy your job for the skills it does give you that you can take forward in your life.
Even if sales are down across the board, there can be exceptions and great attitude makes all the difference. Your company is training you. Use it as an opportunity to refocus. It's a good thing, if you can let it be.

Thank you for that, that was some good advice.
I just find it hard to sometimes, its tough as I have all this going on at work, yet, I have friends who work in supermarkets etc who dont have this problem. I dont disrespect the managers as such, I'm just beginning to get fed up of how they treat us. I am focused on my course and want to be the best I can, I would never want to let my staff down, and mess their rota's etc around as I know this sort of stuff would demotivate them... Suppose I could take them sort of things from it...

StudentOfBusiness

helencbradshaw wrote: »

If they are not paying you for a whole day as well, I think that is a bit off, given it was for retail sales at busiest time of year, and perhaps I would take that up with HR or HO if you cannot resolve it locally.

But I do wonder why you state managers are not "qualified" managers. Most people start "at the bottom" and work their way up, especially in retail - and you dont need an MBA to be a good manager

That is true, but if you don't have good leadership skills then learning would certainly help?

Emmzi

I will take one battled seasoned manager over a book-learned graduate any day.

And I'm a graduate myself.

Learn from your managers, not just that they do stuff wrong but WHY - no one goes to owrk thinking "I'll be especially incompetent and make people hate me today."

Learn to get on with *everyone* no matter how irritating they are.

And then do better when you get your chance.

wantsajob

Common "pass the buck business model". Big boss hires sub-boss, sub-boss is responsible for meeting larger targets, employee responsible for meeting a part of those larger targets. If boss does not meet larger targets he gets treat like junk by his boss, and he treats the employees like junk. Everyone treats everyone like junk because they all think they can get where they want to in the end and prevent being sacked to keep their poorly paid not very good job. Targets are stupid things, usually designed to ensure the biggest anchor who can pretty much rip the money out of a customer's wallet and is willing to put up with the crap wage stays in the job - and is the reason I prefer to shop on the internet and not in shops with pushy salesmen. In the end they're all victims of what people are willing to buy, and targets cannot change that.

IMO the way to get employees to sell more is not to give targets but to provide a bonus for each sale. That way the onus is on the employee to sell, not on the company to assert targets and bully everyone. Instead of selling to keep their job, they are selling to make more money for themselves and it is to their benefit as well as the company. You can also get rid of most of the idiotic over-paid sub-bosses with this model too. Plus a happier work environment means happier and better performing employees.

whitewing

StudentOfBusiness wrote: »

Thank you for that, that was some good advice.
I just find it hard to sometimes, its tough as I have all this going on at work, yet, I have friends who work in supermarkets etc who dont have this problem. I dont disrespect the managers as such, I'm just beginning to get fed up of how they treat us. I am focused on my course and want to be the best I can, I would never want to let my staff down, and mess their rota's etc around as I know this sort of stuff would demotivate them... Suppose I could take them sort of things from it...

Every single student I have ever known has moaned about the jobs that they feel are 'beneath' them. (Myself included).

The trouble is the negativity can become very ingrained, and it will spill across in interview when you are talking about 'what you have learned in previous jobs'. Focus on the elements of the job you enjoy (number 1 being that you have a job; a lot of students round our way can't get regular work), and then you will get a lot more out of it. May be worth looking at some interview questions and at the end of each shift have a 30 second think about what you learned that day that would be good to state in an interview or on your CV.

ceridwen

StudentOfBusiness wrote: »

They also might not see it as 'work' as the rota says 11-4, and I may end up having to work 9-4 without a break.

Thats not legally possible. Anyone who works more than 6 hours has to have a break by law (depends on what age the person is whether its 20 minutes or 30 minutes).

Desperate_Housewife_2-2

just jumping in here as I think the OP is getting a bit of a hard time!

I dont see why you should be made to do what is essentially unpaid overtime. You sound to me like a consciencious guy and not unreasonable to expect payment for work/madatory trainiing. I work for the NHS and have done for nearly 30 yeaars on aand off (mainly on) and itss the thin end of the wedge when you end up staying over the end of your shift to finish off/help colleagues/fill in for staff shortages etc, now I go, do my very best and work hard, show willing and only stay behind if there is an absolute emergency(I have got a conscience) but when asked to come in for extra training on my days off I say no.

This is business, you have a contract of emplyment and get paid for hours worked, end of.

On the other hand, I would be diplomatic about it and not want to rub my manager up the wrong waay, show willing and remain enthusiastic and express an interest in the concept of the selling od extended warranties even if you are not that bothered.

Good luck OP hope you get a good job after your studies but make sure you hang onto this one as its dire out there at the mo, not many jobs around and this one is bringing home the bacon for you. Also make sure you contact HR for your contract of emplyemnt.