'Do you think you get good value from paying tax?' poll discussion

ExpatDavid_2

jonesjw wrote: »

We have a high tax economy with too many spongers unfairly living off the efforts of others. Taxes and public spending need cutting hard and fast.

Well said! Governments both national and local should stick to their core business of providing essential services. If our tax burden were to be reduced substantially then we would be well able to provide the optional services for ourselves. The more tax demanded then the more those who are able to will avoid it.

After adding duties, VAT, local taxes and other charges etc many items of expenditure will be taxed overall at very substantially more than 50% of income even without the 50% tax rate. As for so-called National Insurance the government should come clean and rename it as a tax.

As for the unaudited EU.......

cherry-picker

It seems from the result of the poll that most of us have a very different perception of what we gain from the system compared to what we put in. There also seems to be a big disconnect in our perception about the amount of personal taxt that those at the top of the income distribution pay compared to the bottom. With income tax for example the top 10% of earners pay 55% of all income tax collected, the top 1% pay over 20% of all income tax alone. For a useful analysis of this distribution by income groups see here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm

There is also a diconnection in our understanding on the proportions of income paid on indirect taxes such as VAT, with some claiming that these are wildly regressive and others stating that this regressive impact is less noticeable due to lower incomes actually spending proportionately more of essentials that are zero rated. The main argument about the regressive nature of these indirect taxes seems to revolve around proportion of household income paid on indirect taxes, however this does not paint the whole picture as final household income is highly redistributive. Those in the bottom quintile of household income receive a final income which is more than double what they earn (due to tax credits etc) whereas those in the top quintile receive a houshold income which is over a 3rd lower than they earn (due toincome tax). Therefore in my view the argument on how regressive taxes such as VAT are cannot be taken in isolation and restricted to an argument over the proportion of household income that is spent on indirect taxation when that household income is affected by other tax an benefits mechanisms (income tax and tax credits which are far more progressive). For information on final income by earnings groups there is some useful information from the NSO that demonstrates this.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=334

From looking at the various sources of information that are freely available online it appears that most of us get far more out of the system than we contribute (in direct contradiction of the results of the poll) and our perception that the "rich" are getting a free ride is misplaced. Perhaps we just find it easy to quantify what we are contributing than we do to adequately estimate the true costs of the indirect benefits we receive?

queenbeeno1

I think so many people THINK they pay in more than they receive but seem to forget all the things we have free access to in this country. Anyone who has ever had to phone an ambulance, has never had to worry about whether they have insurance or money to pay for it. Unless you are a high rate tax payer who is never ill, and you stay at home most of the time you probably get more back than you pay in.
For many people on low to middle incomes cutting back on services will hit them very hard, we really should appreciate all the things we do have in the UK.

babsanddon

I have voted for: I pay in much more than I receive.
I pay the standard rate of tax PAYE. Unlike the multi nationals and the banks, and the rich, who avoid tax and register overseas, whilst benefiting greatly from the infrastructure such as transport, education, grants, roads, healthcare etc. that I and other workers and [FONT=&quot]ordinary [/FONT]taxpayers pay for. The list is endless of the benefits they gain at our expense.
Then their publishing friends in the establishment have the audacity to complain of the odd poor family, fiddling a few quid off the dole or the “black economy”.
Check out the rich’s involvement with the “black economy”, price fixing cartels, back hander’s, bribes, bonuses etc.
We pay, rich benefit!!!

Cupcake7890

I am currently receiving treatment for cancer with chemotherapy and other various wonderful drugs. I worked full-time upto diagnosis and have done since leaving school at 16, I am now 40. My daughter has Type 1 diabetes, my youngest brother has had cancer twice, my other brother has a cardiomyothapy, my mother also had cancer...............we are all fit and well now :beer:, thanks to the NHS that is supported by our contributions I think me and my family have had more than our moneys worth.

You all need to look at it with confidence that if were ill you would be given the relevant medication (within reason!) to make you well again. Isn't that worth the contributions we pay...!!:T

Because I for one do.

Harry_Flashman

Damned annoying really when people pontificate without paying attention to real life circumstances.

I have a reasonably low income (under £20K), my other half earns even less (minimum wage). We do not receive benefits (except £30 per month war pension). We rarely use medical services (I have a condition that the NHS will not fund treatment for) and have never used the emegency services. We do not have children, we buy books from charity shops rather than use the library and we do not get anything from the Council aside from refuse collection (which is pretty good by the way ).

Add to this the tax paid on our shopping? We both drink, smoke and drive (matter of choice of course - but it still counts).

Now - would you like to tell me again that I get more out than I put in?

DavidLaGuardia

zierisaver wrote: »

Then I see Jeremy Kyle and I understand where it all goes.

So no, I don't think I get value for my taxes.

While I am not a socialist, I believe in a caring bigger society, inlcuding free health care, safety nets and and that those who have the means paying a larger share.

Leading from the comment above though, I believe though that we have created a benefits dependent culture for many that needs to be nipped in the bud.

I recently had the pleasure of visiting and economically viable company whose main labour consisted of people with varting physical and learning disabilities. It was an inspiration and it truly sickens me how far more able people are able to whine themselves into permanent state dependancy.

Yes they need help in many cases, but help to becomes more self sufficient, not hand-outs.

The most irritating counter-argument I hear in this arena is "personal choice". A choice to ride on the backs of others is not a legitimate choice. I blame the system more than I do individuals.

One idea is that everyone should have a non-profit making income protection policy when they start work akin to that ran by friendly societies. Economies of scale would drive down costs. Most notably medical assessment would be better policed through incentives to the societies (rather than doctors sigining of folk for an easy life) and the tax payer would only need to cover those who are uninsurable from an early age.

DavidLaGuardia

Harry_Flashman wrote: »

We do not have children,

Whether you have children or not, remember that investing today's children properly will define the wealth of the coubtry when we are old!

housebuyer_abc

Well I voted for pay in much more than I receive, which in all honesty is the truth, but I'm not bitter about it.

I have private healthcare so I pay for that and then pay for healthcare again in taxes, same with education my children go to private school but I still pay taxes for the state to run schools...

But then again I'd rather that we educated the nation and kept it physically well and that we could afford to defend our borders and have law and order rather than a few extra pounds in my pocket

Do we get value for money, probably not, too many have worked out ways to overburden the systems in bureaucracy and paperwork but would I rather have it the way it is or not at all?

fluffnutter

What a facile and pointless question. How could anyone ever determine what they individually receive in terms of, using the example, national security or policing. Benefits aside, it's very difficult to calculate what you receive in terms of services from the state. Tax and services are not some consumer equation, whereby you can say 'I've got good value there' like it's some meal or pair of trousers fgs.